264 - Are You a Chewer or Spewer?
Chewing vs. spewing
Some of us tend to process ideas and feelings externally (a spewer), and others more internally (a chewer). These processing styles vary from person to person, and sometimes within relationships they can be a point of conflict if two people process differently.
Spewers
Spewers tend to exhibit these behaviors and traits, or ones similar to these:
Good brainstorming skills in a group
Thinking out loud
Talking oneself through a problem and/or solution, or talk out stressful times
Each type of processing has its strongpoints, and spewers often have the advantages of:
Bringing a sense of flexibility to conversations and the ability to change the course of thoughts and feelings as they are processed
May be good at generating new ideas, new thoughts, or new angles for assessing a problem
And because every upside has to have its downside, some challenges that spewers may face are:
Often being seen as too chatty or too indecisive
If a spewer is in a leadership position, spewing can lead to words being interpreted as directives
A spewer may feel hurt, lonely, or abandoned if/when someone doesn’t have the time, space, or energy to talk things out or listen
Generally have a hard time keeping feelings and thoughts inside, even if it’s not the proper time to talk about them
Chewers
Chewers are internal processors, and often:
Prefer clear agendas and time to prep beforehand
Need time alone with their thoughts and ideas
Dislike being asked to comment about something on the spot
May listen more than talking
Some of the strengths that chewers have are:
They deliberate over words very carefully, which usually means their communication is clear
Thoughts, ideas, and next course of action are often pretty solidified by the time they’re verbally expressed
Chewer challenges:
Can be seen as not a team player
May be seen as shutting down or shutting out
May be easily exhausted by external processing situations
Listen to the full episode to learn some myths about chewers and spewers, as well as how each one may cope differently than the other.
Transcript
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Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory podcast, we're talking about chewers and spewers, which are some terms that we came up with, but otherwise, this is known as being an external processor or an internal processor. We're going to be discussing how to tell what your processing and thinking style may be, the unique strengths and challenges that you may experience when communicating, some misconceptions about processing styles and how to cope if you're in a relationship with someone who processes very differently from you.
Dedeker: There's a surprising number of blogs out there about this, and blogs that seem to me very much written from a place of desperation. Titles like How to Survive When You're Married to an External Processor or like How Do I Deal When I'm in a Relationship With an Internal Processor? Stuff like that. There's a lot of articles out there that do present information about both types, but you could clearly tell which side the writer was actually on.
Emily: That particular person is on, yes.
Jase: Interesting.
Dedeker: Looks like the inherent bias would come out because usually in these articles, one type of processing would just a little bit be portrayed as slightly better than the other one and the one that the author clearly was it would be portrayed as a little bit harder to understand. To be totally honest, I also ran into this when writing this episode because personally, I'm a chewer. I'm an internal processor and when I was writing stuff for the spewer section, sometimes I did have to take a moment to be like, wait.
Emily: They're so damn annoying.
Dedeker: What are spewers good at again? Wait, why is it good to be an external processor? I did come up with it. I did come up with stuff and find good research and stuff like that. For me, even I also ran into issues seeing the other side of the fence as it were.
Jase: The wonderful thing for our listeners is the fact that Dedeker is very much the chewer type, right? The internal processor and I'm definitely the external processor, the spewer as we say, and so is Emily. We've got a mix here.
Emily: Absolutely. I do actually think that I have over the years gotten a little bit more internal than I used to be. I still will have moments of like talking to my mom or talking to you all about things, but then I'll have a little bit more like reflective moments from time to time now. I'm not quite sure what the change has been, maybe just that it's good for me at times to think before I speak and I've just learned that over the years or maybe I'm just used to being steamrolled by people a lot. I just quiet down and just I'm like well, okay, I'll speak when I really need to.
Dedeker: See, that's funny because in my childhood I think that's why I got set up to be an internal processor really is because my sister, my older sister, she was eight years older than me. Already much more mature and talkative in general. She's very much external processor, talks things out to think and I feel since the time I was a child, it was that. I feel like I was just always steamrolled. I'm just going to sit back here and put my nose in a book and be quiet and think about things to myself.
Emily: Interesting.
Jase: To start out this episode, actually, I was wondering, just to clarify for our listeners in case they haven't already heard us talk about this, or they're not already familiar with the idea. Could we sum up what we really mean? It's not really about how much do you talk or not? It more has to do with how you process information, how you work through things.
Dedeker: To to give the super-simplified version we're going to get into more details a little bit later on in this episode, but the simplified version is that if you're an external processor or a spewer, you essentially want to process think things over outside of yourself, so often that comes across as verbally. That can be I need to talk things out when I'm not sure about an idea or I'm not sure about an opinion or I'm not sure what to do next. My process of figuring out and solidifying my idea comes from speaking with other people or talking out loud.
That's often in contrast with internal processors or chewers, where in order for me to crystallize an idea or a thought or figure out what I'm going to do next, I need to think about it to myself quietly. I may not speak until it's totally fully formed in my head.
Emily: Solidified.
Dedeker: Solidified, yes. That's the super broad strokes version of that.
Emily: Let's talk about how this comes together in real life, how people tend to deal with this in real life because processing styles really can vary from person to person, and they can be a big source of conflict in romantic relationships and also in workplace relationships. I found that very interesting, all the articles that you sent us, Dedeker. About how specifically, and I know that I've had co-workers or workplace leadership, people who have given me this idea of I'm going to go off and in the distance think about something and then come back to you when I'm really ready for it versus someone who's like, "Let's talk about things here. Let's have like an open discussion." Those two things if you're not used to that external or internal processing can be at conflict for sure.
There was someone who we looked at their blog website, I guess, and they had this nice quote illustrating how they went through this conflict with their wife. They said, "I have 7,000 new ideas every day. I think they're all great. I tell my wife about one, she hears it as this is something Scott wants to do. The next day, I don't even remember what I said and she's busy planning the next steps in her mind, frustration ensues."
That's really a great example because I think also in the workplace, this can happen where maybe like a person in a leadership position will just throw an idea out there and then the subordinates think, "Shit, this is a thing that we have to do now." They'll start working on that, when in reality, it's just like, "I'm throwing stuff out there. I'm spitballing here. It's not going to be solidified until perhaps later."
Dedeker: This quote, it felt like looking into a mirror. Not of how I felt, but more of how I feel in a relationship with Jase.
Emily: Your relationship with Jase.
Jase: Yes, absolutely. There's that idea of like-- There can be frustration on the part of the spewer there because it's like "No, I was just trying to share with you my internal process, how I'm thinking about things like what's on my mind right now. You've gone and taken it all seriously and are now holding me to that when I was never trying to declare anything. I was just sharing with you." On the other side, it can also be a problem where it's like you share something with me, I'm like, "Oh, cool. Thanks for like letting me into your thought process." Then later, it's like, "Why didn't you do that one thing I mentioned the other day? Why didn't you remember this very serious thing I told you?" I'm like, "I didn't realize it was a serious thing. I thought you're just sharing a thought."
Dedeker: I'm going to jump in here just because I really like the shorthand of I'm sharing, not declaring.
Emily: I'm sharing, not declaring.
Dedeker: Yes, or I'm declaring, not sharing, maybe that needs to be a thing.
Jase: That's fun.
Dedeker: Maybe we can try that out.
Emily: That's good. I will say, especially in our work environment with the three of us, if Jase has something that he needs to work through, you do a pretty good job of just being like, "Just bear with me here. Just give me a second. I'm just going to work through something with you all. Then you'll proceed to talk for 20 minutes about, I don't know. Anything.
Emily: Then Dedeker and I will be like, "Let's try to parse this apart a little bit here."
Dedeker: Let's sort through the pile.
Emily: Of your ideas. Yes, exactly.
Dedeker: A pile of constant ticker tape and see what's actually here.
Emily: I do feel like you're fairly good at that within a working relationship.
Jase: I had to learn to be that way and part of what taught me to be that way actually was my freshman year of college. I had a girlfriend who would get so angry at me about when I was just trying to work through something talking with her would get--
Emily: So angry?
Jase: She would get angry because she would feel I was coming to her asking for an answer to the problem, rather than-- It took her a while to finally realize that when I was doing that I actually just wanted to talk through it that I wasn't saying like, "Hey, give me an answer to this." It was this combination of she learned that that's how I worked and I also learned to preface things by being like, "I just want to talk through this. I'm not looking for an answer." To be more clear. Meta-communication. We talked about that.
Emily: Exactly. For myself with my current partner, Josh, I was coming into that relationship after being in a relationship with you, Jase, where the two of us would sometimes just talk about an issue very abstractly and then eventually come to maybe some understanding or agreement and it would be fine, like whatever but if I'm not pretty damn clear immediately about what I'm saying, then I think it frustrates him pretty easily. I have learned by being in that relationship for five years, like hey, I need to maybe think about it for a moment, just take an extra second of not just saying something and rather trying to formulate my thoughts internally and then come out with a more specific answer or response because that's going to come across better and also be taken I think better than if I just was talking about a bunch of stuff.
Jase: Okay. Let's move into actually breaking down these things because clearly this is something that's near and dear to our hearts that it's important to our own communication both professionally and romantically. Let's go through this. We're going to start off with the spewer category. This is the external processor, the one that I am, the one that Emily also is. Let's start off like MIS viewer. How would I tell?
Emily: Yes, that is right.
Jase: The answer is yes. The question to ask yourself is things like do I love brainstorming out loud with other people? Do I like to think out loud? I do this even when I'm by myself, even if I'm not talking to someone, it helps me when I'm working through something to actually verbalize it out loud or to write it down in a journal is another way of getting that external processing without needing to talk to someone and talking yourself either through a decision or through tasks you need to do or through stressful times that are going on, whatever. It's like I want to process it a little bit outside of myself.
I would add to that a way to help tell that you're one of this type is that when you do try to just sit silently and think through something that it's actually difficult. It can be very frustrating to just be like, this should be clear. I know I can come up with a solution to this, but it's hard to do it. If you do end up just like someone's like, "What are you so frustrated about?" and you start explaining the problem. I'll often be doing that and halfway through explaining what's going on, I go, "Oh my gosh, I got it. I figured it out. I know what I have to do."
Emily: Fascinating.
Dedeker: Spewers do bring some natural strengths just by way of being built that way.
Emily: Why, thanks, Dedeker. Thank you for finding those strengths even though maybe it's difficult.
Dedeker: Well, I may need your help in this section, but based on my reading and my research and personal experience, the main things that struck me is that spewers are external processors can bring a sense of flexibility to conversations. If this conversation isn't about this particular fixed topic or this particular fixed idea, it's an evolving conversation where we're just going to, as we go along, figure out what it is that we're actually trying to achieve or figuring out what's the next, going to be the next best step. Things like that. They have the ability to change the course of their thoughts and feelings as they are processed in real-time.
Spewers also can be good at generating new ideas or new thoughts or new angles for looking at a problem. Hence the brainstorming thing, this idea that in the process of getting it outside of you, there's some kind of magical alchemy that happens that lets us all be able to look at something from a new point of view or things like that. I know that for me, at least my experience in my relationship with Jase, something that I see as a strength or a benefit to me anyway is, I really love trusting that if something's wrong, Jase is not going to be the type to be stewing for a couple of days trying to piece it together while he figures out the right way to say it. I know that if something's wrong, even if you don't know what is wrong quite yet, that you're definitely going to proactively communicate that because that's part of you figuring it out. That's nice to trust in that to know that if something's up I'm going to know about it for better or worse.
Emily: Yes. I was going to say in terms of flexibility, I find that spewers tend to let things roll off their back fairly easily and not continue to ruminate about something over and over after the fact. Well, that was a moment in time. We're going to let it go, whatever and then move on to the next thing. I don't know. At least for myself, I find that the chewers in my life sometimes tend to hold on to something and really mull over it for a long time and even maybe hold grudges a little bit more than the spewers in my life do. I don't know, that's maybe a generalization.
Jase: Yes. I will say something that I've noticed as a strength of being a spewer compared to the people in my life I see as more chewers is that I feel for a spewer, there is this sense that all thoughts are transitory, they're all temporary. No thought that I've ever had is a permanent thing that I'm always going to think, that there is this sense of flexibility. I think though that where it can be a problem and maybe this segue ways into some of the challenges with being a spewer where it can be a problem is someone might take something that you're processing through as like this is what you believe, this is what you stand for and that could be a problem.
Emily: Totally, and even like many years in the future, like even if you say something now or if you have a feeling about something now or even are very passionate about something now, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to always be there and yet somebody else in your life who is a chewer may find that to be like no, you said that, that is who you are. That is what you will always believe when it's not necessarily the case. That's one challenge of being a spewer.
Also, spewers can be seen as being too chatty or undecisive. Yes, that's definitely something that I've been labeled before, both of those things.
Jase: Me too, yes.
Emily: As I said before, if a spewer is in a leadership position, they can lead to words being interpreted as directives. You say like, "I'm just spitballing here, but let me throw something out here. Why don't we just write this next time around or why don't we try this tomorrow?" Then others, subordinates will just be like, okay, we're doing that now and it's not necessarily what they meant.
Spewers might feel hurt or abandoned when others don't have the time, space or energy to talk things out or listen, I felt that too. Also, hard time keeping thoughts and feelings inside. Oh, boy, that one just triggering for me even when it's not the best time for talking about it. This is something I've gotten better at over the years, but definitely I think in the first half-decade of you knowing me, Jace, and you knowing me, Dedeker, I was very much just like, oh, let me talk about this even when I could have ruminated on that a bit more.
Dedeker: I've definitely seen this with clients of mine who I see that are more spewers like really have a hard time with the communication tool of either a radar or setting a time in the future of like hey, let's pause for now and then on Friday, let's find some time to talk about this thing because right now we're at the grocery store and trying to get groceries and deal with the kids and stuff like that. Let's put it on pause that. I've definitely seen some hardcore spewers are external processors just really having a hard time with that because it's this uncomfortable like, oh, but I don't like the way that I move through this emotion or these feelings is to talk it out. Of course, like Emily said, that can lead to then feeling even more frustration or feeling even rejected by your partner when they're not there or available to receive the spewing.
Emily: To receive the spews.
Dedeker: Sorry to make it sound so negative. You can clearly tell where I am.
Jase: Exactly. Let's switch. We're going to get more into specific tools and ways to help handle things when you're a spewer, but let's first now talk about how would you identify if you're a chewer. Dedeker, you'll have to help me out with this as being a chewer yourself but it would be things like I don't want a conversation or discussion to be sprung on me. I need some time to think about it beforehand. I want a clear agenda and some prep time, needing alone time with my ideas and thoughts.
I would say a chewer, I would identify a chewer by someone who if you come to them and say, "Hey, it seems like you're feeling this way. Do you want to talk about it?" They're like, "No, I need to think that over first." They don't want to just talk about it. Whereas a spewer I probably would be like, "Yes, let me talk through it, try to figure it out." They dislike being asked to comment on something on the spot, same thing about their feelings or about a decision or whatever. It's like, "No, I can't tell you anything until I've had more time to think about it." I'm not so convinced about this last one, but the last one on the list here is that you may listen more than you talk.
Dedeker: That's not one that I came up with.
Jase: No, I get that.
Dedeker: I read when researching.
Jase: I get that. Personally, though, I disagree with this one in terms of it being related to chewers and spewers. I would say this is more of a different trait that's independent of being one or the other, just based on people I know in my life.
Dedeker: However, I do think it makes sense that like if you have a couple who have different processing styles, and the spewer comes to the chewer and the spewer is processing, processing, processing. Talking things out, talking things out, talking things out. It's at the very least going to give the appearance that the chewer is the one who's doing more listening than talking in that instance .
Jase: Sure, in that moment right there. Yes.
Emily: Yes. That makes sense. Until they have their idea formulated and then they're just going to be like, "Listen, this is what it is."
Jase:
Dedeker: Right. Strengths that chewers bring to the table is that chewers tend to, in that process of needing to sit with their feelings and think about them, that often before they speak they will deliberate over words very carefully. Sometimes if they deliberate enough, it means that communication can be very clear, because it's like where you've chipped away at all the possible ways to communicate this and I think that I've landed on, this is the way that I am going to decide to tell you how I'm feeling and this is the most accurate way that I've decided is how I feel.
Things like thoughts, ideas, the next course of action often are pretty solidified by the time they're verbally expressed. That can be a really good thing in the sense of feeling like, "Okay, I've made my decision. I think I feel good about where to head next and I feel very sure." It can also be a challenge as well because sometimes that can lead to chewers becoming really fixed in their ideas as well. It can be this idea--
Emily: Less flexible.
Dedeker: Less flexible and like this idea of like, "No, no, no, I've already gone through my flexible process of thinking about all the possible ways it can go, now I've decided and I can't be flexible beyond that."
Emily: With all of that, let's talk about the challenges that chewers face because they do face some. They can be seen as not being a team player. They may be seen as shutting down or shutting out others, especially if they do need those moments of like-- I've been in situations where I've asked my partner something and said, "What do you think about that?" They're like, "You know what? I need maybe a day or an hour to think about that before I respond," and I'm like, "What? Excuse me. You can't just tell me?" Yes, they need a moment to really sit there and formulate a good coherent thought about it, which is just very different than how I operate.
To me, sometimes I do make that mistake of thinking like, "Wow, they're just shutting me down in this moment." Even I would say, I'm not great at halt. I haven't been, at least in the past, I certainly haven't been as good as I probably should be whereas my partner is very good at it. I wonder if that can be a challenge for a spewer as well that maybe they're not as great at halting.
Dedeker: Something else, again to rope this into thinking about workplace relationships as well, that a lot of the examples that I saw is you call a meeting, and often the chewer is the one who waits until the last five minutes of the meeting to finally be like, "Well, here's my thoughts and my ideas." After having not contributed to the brainstorm, or maybe I'm only just repeating back like, "Okay, here's my synthesis of everything," and everyone's like, "Why? Yes, we know that. We're already miles ahead of you."
Emily: Interesting.
Dedeker: That's something that can happen in the workplace and that's how sometimes chewers can be seen as like they're not contributing or they're not a team player, because they're in that internal processing process essentially. Especially if it's a meeting or where they haven't been given an agenda or the topic ahead of time and so they're using the meeting time to be doing that chewing.
Jase: Yes, I think that also part of it that can be a challenge on both sides with this one is that once the chewers come to a conclusion about something, it can often feel to the other person, especially if that other person's a spewer, it's going to feel like, "But do I not get any say on this? Do I not have any influence on how you think about this?" Like we were saying, but it's like it's done. It's been decided it's done, end of discussion and that can be really frustrating.
On the other side, where it's like, "I thought I was waiting for you to think about it, so then we could discuss it," instead of like, "I was waiting and now it's done. I missed my chance to be involved in the discussion with you." Things like that. I think especially in really any kind of relationship, but I've noticed it in romantic relationships too, where it's kind of like, "Hey, we want to have some give and take in this," and so I think that definitely like from both sides, having this understanding of it though, helps a lot. Having this understanding of the way that we each process so that we can set up ways to make that work better.
That the chewer can find ways to let this viewer be involved in the discussion and maybe even have like, "I'm going to think about it with the anticipation that we're going to discuss it and then I think about it more and then I can come to a conclusion," or something like that. Part of that whole having a clear agenda thing is an example of something that can be a helpful tool, but without that, it can be a big challenge for chewers.
Emily: Yes, absolutely. Finally, a last chewer challenge. Not the last but one of the others is that they may be easily exhausted by external processing situations. Again, if we're in a big board room, and a bunch of people are just talking, talking, talking, the chewer may be sitting back, not participating necessarily because it's very exhausting to be a part of situations like that where they don't feel comfortable contributing in that fashion.
Jase: Or when Dedeker is just tired of my shit.
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: No.
Emily: That too.
Dedeker: I feel like we're really painting not a good portrait of our relationship on this episode.
Emily: No.
Dedeker: I will say though that more what I would get exhausted by, I think in the past, was before I had an awareness of any of this, and so to me, anyone who is spewing or externally processing, I'm putting my chewer lens on it. I'm thinking, "Everything they're saying to me is finalized and is thought out and wow, that's really overwhelming, because wow, they have a lot of ideas or a lot of things that they want to do next, or that they're definitely going to do next or a lot of different beliefs that they firmly believe now and wow, how do I deal with this?" I do think that I used to get a lot more exhausted by that in the past.
Again, kind of just with my chewer glasses now. Now that I have more of a sense of there being different processing styles, it's helped me find it easier to cope and be more flexible with those things, but we're going to get more into specific coping strategies a little bit later on in the episode.
Emily: We're going to get into some myths and misconceptions about spewing and chewing and also how to cope with it if you are having difficulties in your working relationships or your romantic relationships, but the reason we're able to bring you all this content for free is because of our awesome supporters and sponsors.
Dedeker: Let's talk about some myths and misconceptions and even assumptions that people make about spewing versus chewing. First one, I just want to get out there right out the gate, is that not every relationship issue is caused by a difference in processing styles. You can have two people in a relationship who are both spewers and get along great and have very low conflict or you can have a relationship with two people who are both spewers and they have very high conflict and have a really incompatible relationship, but it's not great. Not every single communication issue can boil down just to being a spewing versus chewing issue.
The next misconception or assumption maybe, I guess that I'd want to tackle is that it's not really likely that you can force someone to change their processing style. If you're in a relationship with someone who is a chewer, it's maybe over the course of time, you can help them become more comfortable to talk about things more in the moment or process a little bit more in real-time but it's unlikely that you're going to be able to completely rewire the way that they process with you. Of course, there's tiny tweaks, there's hacks, there's tools that you can use to make your communication better, but it's unlikely that you're going to be able to completely change the way that they deal with things.
Jase: Yes, I might even argue that even if like in Emily's example, where she's saying she feels like she's less of a chewer now, that I might even make the argument that your style of processing hasn't changed, but rather you've learned different tools for like how you share that in the world. Even if you did have a partner where you did teach them how to do your processing style, that you might actually be hindering their actual processing even if they do learn how to do the mechanics of your way of doing it. No scientific backing for this at all. There's not a lot of research into this actually. That's what I got.
Dedeker: The other thing is that one style of processing is not inherently better than the other even though--
Emily: As much as you want.
Dedeker: As much as you wish that that was the case.
Jase: I'm like, "Yes, but it is though."
Dedeker:
Jase: Yes, you're right.
Emily: It's not though. Yes?
Jase: Nothing. I'm just being sassy.
Emily: Just a sass and it's not always a binary because people may go through different processing styles in different phases of their relationship, or in different phases of their life, or with different people in relationships because, yes, when I was with Jase, we both were just spewing all over the place, whatever, it didn't matter. It flowed very easily. Yes, I've absolutely had to change and mold a bit my style of spewing.
It's not that I don't still do that, but as you said, I have morphed my way of communicating because my partner is so internally processing all the time. I've also learned to not get so frustrated when I feel like he's shutting me out and I'm just learning things at the back end of his internal thought process because often I'm like, "Wow, I just completely missed how you got from point A to point B." That can be really frustrating for me, but I've learned to not take that personally anymore and just be like, "Well, this is how he processes, and that is what it is." Also-- Yes?
Jase: I was just going to say in terms of not being binary also that it's not like you are 100% one or the other, that someone could be a much stronger spewer than another, and another person could be a much stronger chewer. It's a whole spectrum within that.
Emily: Absolutely. It really doesn't hide as we have demonstrated today, it does not run along gender lines because Dedeker is very much a chewer and Jase is very much a spewer. Although, maybe at first glance, someone might think, "Men are the stoic, silent types that process internally, and women are just chatty and expressive, and they process externally. That's the way that it is." Honestly, a lot of online blogs will tell you this, but they're full of shit, in my opinion. Truly, the two of you, to me, are so very much embody those two things, and you identify as a man and you identify as a woman. There it is.
Dedeker: Yes. I ran across, when I was researching this episode, there was this funny blog, and the title of the blog was I Process Like a Dude and He Processes Like a Chick. Of course, immediately, I was like, "Uuuh," but I read it anyway. I was like, "I'm still going to read it," and I read it.
It was this woman sharing about how she really had conflict in this relationship for a long time until she went to a therapist and realized, "Oh, we process things very differently. That's why." Of course, for her, she was assuming all men process internally and women process externally and how funny that, in my relationship-
Emily: It's not the case.
Dedeker: -it's flipped. In the middle of the blog post, she did say like, "Statistics show that the majority of men are internal processors, and the majority of women are external processors." I was like, "Oh, wow. Okay. I hope she really links to that study. Maybe that is true. Maybe it does run along gender lines more than I'm assuming that it does." Then, I got to the very end of the blog post. At the very end, she was like, "Dang it, I just could not find that study that I thought that I read."
Emily: Yes, exactly.
Jase: Because it doesn't exist.
Dedeker: I think maybe it doesn't exist.
Emily: Probably not.
Jase: It also reminds me, with the triforce of communication, that there's also this association with gender with that, that the triforce two is the way that women communicate. It's like, "Oh, I just want to talk about feelings and have you comfort me, and I don't care about making actual conclusions," and that men are triforce three, which is like, "I want to solve a problem and get it solved and be done."
While I think those traits, just internal and external processing, might be received better for men versus women, one or the other might be received better socially, but I don't think there's any actual connection.
Dedeker: I think that's arguable though, because when I was thinking about it, I think that makes sense that, yes, maybe there's nothing about this that inherently runs along gender lines, but we just tend to treat people who fall into gender stereotypes better. However, when I was thinking about it that you could then make that argument that well, then maybe more men would end up being external processors because we're just more comfortable with letting men speak more-
Jase: Yes, that's possible too.
Dedeker: -and taking up time to just speak about things and philosophize and think about things, and much less so with women, so you could make the argument either way.
Jase: Or is it that we assume that men are internal processors because we take what they say more seriously than we should?
Dedeker: That too.
Jase: That's possible too.
Emily: That's a good point.
Dedeker: Yes, we take that they must've thought this over and come to a definite conclusion, even though they maybe they clearly haven't. Yes, that's interesting.
Jase: Which is always my struggle, where I'm like, "No, no, no, don't take any of it very seriously because I'm working it out. I'll let you know if this is something I've really thought through, but even then I might change my mind."
Dedeker: I don't want us to get too sidetracked on this, but this is something that comes up in literature and in writing that female authors, it tends to be more expected, if you're going to write something, especially if it's nonfiction if you're going to write something, it better be concrete, and thought out, and useful, and men are more allowed to write the philosophy books of, "Well, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. I don't know." When women tend to philosophize, it's usually accused of being navel-gazey and no one really cares.
That's another thing that shows up in writing, this idea that I would argue maybe we are more comfortable with men externally processing and being more fluid in their thoughts and with women, we're more like, "We don't have the patience for that. Figure it out, woman. I don't know."
Jase: Gosh. Okay, sorry, we don't want to go off on this tangent. The last myth that we wanted to bust here is that they're not related to being introverted or extroverted. Being introverted or extroverted has more to do with how you feel energetically around people. Extroverts get energy and are recharged by social situations and stimulation, and introverts are drained by too much stimulation or having too many people around in social situations.
That's not to say that that means introverts hate being social, but it's more it drains them. They might still like that and need that, but they're not gaining energy from it. Then, on the flip side, extroverts might also like to have their alone time, but it's not going to recharge them in the same way that an introvert would, but neither of these are related to chewing and spewing.
Emily: Yes, I feel like I'm the only true extrovert of the three of us.
Jase: Yes, I'm definitely not an extrovert at all.
Dedeker: Yes, I'd agree with that assessment. I'd agree with that assessment, but it is totally have an extrovert who is also a chewer when they process and to have an introvert who is a spewer.
Jase: Absolutely, yes
Emily: Absolutely, yes.
Dedeker: All right. Well, how do we cope? How do we deal?
Emily: You tell me.
Jase: You tell us.
Emily: Why don't you start this one off?
Dedeker: We're going to go through this section. We have some tools for coping if you're a spewer who is in a relationship with a chewer, if you're a chewer who's in a relationship with a spewer. I'm going to start out with just some general best practices coping tools for everybody.
The first thing I would encourage people to do is to get all meta. Meta communicate. It's really important to, first of all, think about this stuff in the first place, as you're listening to this episode, evaluating, "Which side of the line do I fall on?" Talk to your partner about that, ask them to think about it as well, ask them to share theirs. You can either share this episode with them or if you just google external processing internal processing, you can find all the resources that I found along with some-
Jase: Beware.
Dedeker: -strange-- Beware, there's also a surprising number of Christians blogs that talk about this, so take some of that with a grain of salt.
Emily: Yes, one of the ones that you sent us, Dedeker immediately was like, "But then I found Jesus," and I was like, "Whoa, I didn't expect that." Nothing wrong with that, but I was surprised.
Dedeker: But then I found Jesus and I stopped spewing, and it was great.
Dedeker: Get all meta, have these conversations because I'm telling you that, for me, it really was a game-changer once I realized like, "Oh, I'm projecting my own processing style onto everybody else, and it's creating a lot of unnecessary frustration in my romantic relationships and workplace relationships." Along the same lines of being meta, you can use the triforce. Go listen to our triforce episode. Go search for triforce on the Multiamory website.
Basically, it's a shorthand for being able to specifically ask-- For instance, if you're spewing, if you're externally processing, that you can use the triforce to be like, "Oh, hey, by the way, this is just a T1, just listening. You don't even need to give me sympathy or support or help me solve it. I'm really just thinking out loud and I just want you to be present for that and listen to that."
Or a chewer can be very specific of like, "You know what? I'm going to share some stuff, and I'm pretty well decided in it, so I don't really need help figuring out what's the next thing to do. I don't really need advice or problem-solving, I just want to hear some validation or just hear that you think that I've thought this through well enough. That's what I need." That can also really help to reduce frustration when you're in a relationship with someone who processes very differently from you.
Jase: Yes, because both they know the purpose of your communication by meta communicating about it, and then also you're more likely to get a response that's helpful to you because they know what you're looking for. It's really both sides are going to benefit from that type of meta communicating.
Emily: When you're a spewer, like Jase and I are, here's a couple of tricks and tips for coping for spewers specifically. When you are thinking something through, make sure that others around you are aware that that's the stage that you're in. I think, again, as I said, Jase is very good at this, especially in workplace situations. You're like, "Okay, just bear with me while I talk about this."
It is okay to ask permission to bounce ideas off of someone. Say like, "Okay, what do you think about this thing?" et cetera. As you will often do that with us as well.
Also, have patience when others don't respond immediately. This is a good one for me too because, yes, I tend to be like, "Well, what do you think about that?" Then if my chewer partner says, "Well, let me get back to you on that." It might be really frustrating for me if I don't know to have patience because this is just them needing to take time and a moment away. Dedeker is shaking her head.
Jase: To go back to the meta communicating part of this, something I found really helpful for me, specifically, if I'm trying to work out a solution to something or trying to understand, like trying to formulate an opinion about something or make a decision that it helps to start it out by being like, "I just want to talk," like Triforce one. "I just want you to listen." Something I have found can be really helpful especially if you have a partner who understands this and is like, "Okay, yes, I want to support you in this." Is to say, "I just want to talk and all I want you to do is if anything I say doesn't make sense to ask me a clarifying question about it."
Emily: Yes, that's smart.
Jase: Literally, I'm thinking about this because I just had this experience today with my mom. I was working on a programming project. I was having a lot of frustration with trying to solve this programming issue. At one point, she's like, "So what is it that you're frustrated about?" I was like, "Okay, well, let me try to explain it." I was walking through some of the dilemmas and why it's hard based on the data that I have to make these decisions each time the script is run, whatever."
I was explaining it through. She'd be like, "Well, but what do you mean? It's this?" I'm like, "Oh, no." That's because this other thing helped me get more clear on what exactly it is I'm working on, by talking to someone who I'm not going to go like, "Oh, Well, this function is passing back this callback, this other thing." It's like, "No, I'm just trying to explain--"
Emily: It's all going over my head.
Jase: Right. I'm just trying to explain the concept. Even doing that and having her be like, "But what do you mean?" Then I explained it again or clarify that. Then I was like, "Yes, no, you're right. Yes, I should just do it this way." it was just like during that conversation. I was like, "Yes, it makes sense now." Now, I've simplified it for myself by spewing it out loud.
Emily: That's cool. Another coping mechanism for a spewer is if you're going to spew, spew into this trashcan or--
Jase: Paper cup.
Emily: Yes, exactly. I was like .
Dedeker: Emily, I was really hoping that you were going to give your best like Garth Algar impression.
Emily: What?
Dedeker: Wayne's World.
Jase: If you are going to spew, spew into this.
Dedeker: Exactly.
Emily: Oh wow, it's been a minute since I've watched that film. Sorry about that.
Jase:
Emily: I let you down, I apologize.
Dedeker: Just to clarify for listeners, the name of this tool is If you're going to spew, spew into this as a tribute to Garth Algar.
Emily: There we go. Basically, if your partner isn't sure and needs time, then you should maybe use a journal or a voice recorder or a trusted friend or your mom or a therapist or counselor to process. I definitely will talk to the two of you about things or my mom about things if I need to work through something and I know maybe it's not the best time to talk to my partner about it or whatever. Yes, then instead, you can talk to someone else about it or just talk to your journal or a voice recorder. That's really interesting. I don't love hearing my own voice. I think I'd have a really hard time with that.
Dedeker: Says the person who's on a podcast every single week.
Emily: Yes, but that's why I never listened to the podcast. I'm glad that other people enjoy hearing my voice but myself, my goodness, No, thank you. I'd rather write it down.
Jase: Well, I got a fun tip for you actually and our listeners at home if they're in the same boat, is there are a number of services like this, I use one called otter.ai. O-T-T-E-R, like the animal. Dot A-I. You can install the app on your phone and you record a voice memo and it transcribes it all for you. You don't even have to listen to it back to be able to revisit it and look at what you said.
Emily: I like that.
Dedeker:
Jase: Yes, I really like it and it's free like up to a certain number of minutes per month it's free. I've never run over the free amount. I definitely recommend it. I guess also, Emily, you hit on it with saying like you've got your mom to talk to or you've got us to talk to in addition to your partner, is if you're a spewer is-- If you only have one person who you rely on for all of your spewing needs, that's a lot to ask of that person.
Emily: Definitely.
Jase: Even just the time that they need to spend listening, even if they're not actively participating, you just need them to be there and listen. That's still a lot of time you're asking of them. If you can diversify that network of who it is you have to share and to talk things through with, that can also be really helpful.
Emily: Back to this thing that I asked about, and he doesn't have an answer for it at this point. It's a good time for journaling too, to write down, "Okay, come back to this place."
Dedeker: That's also something that can help us adding more specificity to that. If you're unsure, it can be more specific of like, "You know what? I'm going to take 20 minutes and I'm going to go take a walk and think about this." Or asking specifically, "Hey, yes, that does seem really important. Is it okay if we put this on the agenda for our next radar or is it okay if we talk about this when I'm on my lunch break?" Or something like that, just being more specific about what is it you need in order to carve out that time and take it.
Similar to the coping mechanisms for spewers is that if you are going to step out and take time, if you're falling quiet in a discussion, you can meta-communicate and make sure that others around you are aware that you're in the thinking and processing stage, you're not necessarily blowing them off. You can let people know clearly like, "Hey, I know I'm quiet, but I'm just thinking about things. Things are okay." I know, my experience as a chewer, growing up in American culture is, I think that there's often this knee jerk urge to fill up any silence and a knee jerk urge to respond to things right away. Sometimes that's a helpful thing. I think a lot of times, it's not necessarily a helpful thing.
I know for myself as a chewer, that sometimes there's this urge to fill up silence where I'm like, "I really would love 20 minutes to think about this, but I need to just blah," like say whatever that this person is expecting me to say in the moment. It really is okay to carve out what you need, ask for what you need, and not just have to cave to that urge to fill up some space in a conversation. Something else that can be really helpful for chewers is to come up with some set rituals for chewing.
Maybe it's a particular walk or hike that you do, maybe it's just I always go walk around the block around my apartment complex, maybe there's a specific place where you're going to go sit by yourself, maybe you're going to go meditate. Similar to spewers, journaling and voice recording also works well for this to have that quiet little place and carve out that space in time where you can sit down and chew out your thoughts to your heart's content.
Jase: Chew them out. Be like, "Dang it, thoughts. You're really messing with me again this time."
Emily: So much chewing.
Jase: I have a question actually for you, Dedeker, that just occurred to me is with being an internal processor, and needing time to think something over, say like in Emily's example. It's like, I've asked your opinion about something and you say, "Okay, I want some time to think about that. I need to process that and get back to you." Do you find that that then just happens in the background, and just the next day, you'll be good to talk about it or is it like, if you don't set aside time to think about it, you're just never going to get through that processing and not be ready to talk about it?
Dedeker: For me, personally, I think that depends on the topic or how big the topic is. I think that generally, though, can depend person to person.
Jase: I was just thinking about that situation where it's like if you're an internal processor, but you don't give yourself time to internally process, you can just end up frustrating everyone because you're never making that time for yourself to process so then you can get back to them.
Dedeker: Yes. I've definitely seen people where their internal processing, unfortunately, can enable them not thinking about something or being in denial about something if they don't carve out that time, but then I've also known a lot of people where background processing is very much a thing or it's just like, "Okay, well, I know that when I'm on the treadmill today that I'm going to be thinking about this and something will crystallize or solidify during that process." It does depend on the person and maybe the size of the topic.
Jase: Right, that makes sense.
Dedeker: How have you coped with me, Jase, as a spewer?
Jase: I think the meta communicating thing, honestly, of everything we've talked about, is the biggest of just becoming aware of the difference and then talking about it, clarifying it or even I've noticed something that both of us have done is we'll start having a discussion about something and there might start to get a little bit of frustration over this mismatch but we catch it very quickly. We're like, "Oh, right, okay, you just need to talk this through." You'll say like, "Okay, I'm just going to let you think through that." Or I realize like, "Right, it's not fair of me to ask for her to have an opinion on this thing yet. That's fine." Maybe I still am like, "I want to talk through it a little bit. You help me know if that makes sense," but then the next time we talk about it, then you'll have more formed opinions about it.
It's kind of just knowing it and being aware and, I guess, not expecting the problem to be solved by expecting the other person to do things like you. Instead, it's like let's find tools to communicate while still being who we each are instead of forcing one or the other or expecting, "We'll be happy if she just did it my way." That's a not helpful way to go about it.
Dedeker: That makes sense. I will say though, we were talking a little bit earlier about adjusting your communication style to match your partner's processing style, and Jase, I do think of all the people in my life, you're probably one of the very very few people where I feel comfortable experimenting with spewing.
Emily: Interesting.
Jase: You have mentioned that to me before, yes.
Emily: Has she done that? Maybe a little bit? Yes, maybe once and a while.
Jase: Yes or she'll kind of work through some thoughts while she's trying to--
Emily: Talk a little about a couple of things.
Jase: Yes, you're right. I have noticed that change. That's true.
Dedeker: Yes. If there's anyone in my life where I'm like, "I feel safe and comfortable to actually process things in real-time verbally," it's probably you because I know that you speak that language.
Jase: That's an interesting thought right there is in addition to becoming aware of yourself if you're also aware of the other people in your life. If you ever feel an urge of, "I need support in this one way," you can also have a better sense of, "I know this person's going to be able to speak that language versus this other person."
Dedeker: Yes, definitely. We're going to keep talking about this in our bonus episode. Specifically, we're going to be talking about whether or not spewing and chewing is related to pursuit and withdrawal. If you want to know about pursuit and withdrawal patterns, you can listen to our episode 227, but we're going to be diving into that in the bonus episode today.
Jase: We would love to hear from all of you. Are you a chewer or a spewer? Is this a new concept to you or have you been listening for so long that you remember when we first thought that we had invented this idea a few years ago?
Dedeker:
Emily: It was a long time ago.