313 - Compersion Season 2: Roundtable Discussion
Season 2 is here!
It’s been four years since Jackie Stone, creator of the web series Compersion, has been on our show, but she’s finally back, and with season 2 nonetheless! This week we were joined by Jackie and four of the cast members, Jammie, Derrick, Loren, and Ka, to talk about season 2, what has changed since the beginning of the show, how polyamory and diversity has changed in the media, and the future of the show.
The four actors give their perspectives on:
Their first impression when being cast for the show.
If they have had any difficulty sharing the show's contents with friends and family.
Jackie speaks on:
Whether or not polyamory has become more of a known subject since season 1 and if it’s easier to discuss.
Diversity in the polyamorous community.
How worldwide shifts in perspective have influenced her work in the last four years.
Hopes for the future.
Listen to the full episode to get everyone’s opinions and experiences while filming Compersion!
Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory podcast, we're talking to the cast and creator of the web series Compersion. It has been four years since we last had Ms. Jackie Stone, the writer, producer, director, and creator of Compersion on our show. We're so excited to have you back for season two to talk about that, and today, we're joined by several cast members.
We're going to talk about how the second season finally came to be, what was involved in bringing this second season to life, as well as what's changed in the four years since this show was first being created, how polyamory and diversity in media has continued to evolve and what we can expect for these characters and for the Compersion story in the future. Welcome. Thank you all for being here.
Emily: Yay .
Jackie: Thank you for having us.
Emily: I would love to just kind of get a brief introduction from everyone because we're doing this big round table discussion, and this is the first time that we've had seven people at once speaking on the show. It's really incredible. Did I count that right?
Dedeker: No, eight.
Emily: We're eight people. You're right. It's eight of us. Wow. Goodness. Yes. I would love it if everybody could introduce themselves, please, and maybe say who you play on the show as well, or what you do on the show.
Jackie: My name is Jackie J. Stone, and I'm the writer, director, producer, tap dancer, editor, one-time sound recordist of Compersion. I'm so happy to be here.
Jase: Thank you so much. We're glad to have you back.
Jammie: Hi, all. I'm Jammie Patton. I play Keena on the series Compersion. Sometimes, I've done hair and makeup, most times , costumes. Yes, thank you for having me on your show, and it's so good to see all your faces. I miss you, guys.
Loren: Miss you too.
Derrick: Hi, I'm Derrick LeMont. I play Josh. Thanks for having me.
Loren: I'll follow that up. I'm Loren Lillian, and I play Sophia, and yes, I'm very happy to be here.
Ka: I'm Ka'ramuu Kush. I play Colt and try and do what Jackie tells me to do.
Dedeker: Seems like good words of wisdom to live by.
Emily: Absolutely.
Dedeker: We definitely have a lot of listeners in our audience who are really familiar with Compersion season one. I know at the time that it came out, people were and still are just clearly so desperate for any kind of representation about non-monogamy, polyamory, the reality, the struggles in our media. I was wondering if, Jackie, you could kind of catch our audience up to speed, give a little bit of background on the show, initially how it initially came to be and then we can talk a little bit more about what happened in the first season.
Jackie: Okay. Compersion is basically a family drama that follows a couple who've been married for 15 years, as they transition from a monogamous marriage to a polyamorous relationship. The story came to be because many, many, many moons ago, I met someone who was in a polyamorous marriage, and at this time, polyamory did not have such a big voice. It was really, really undercover, and I had never heard of it. I was really fascinated that him and his wife had this relationship where they were committed to their marriage, but they also had other love relationships.
As a writer, I was like, "Ooh, this would be a great family drama," because what really interested me about exploring polyamory is like, what happens when the heart can't be contained, where it's just not some sort of physical one-night stand, but you really have to deal with your partner or partners being in relationships with other people. I looked to my own family, and I was like, what would it be like if my uncle or my dad or my cousin was faced with their wife or their partner coming to them and saying, "I don't want to be monogamous anymore."
I really wanted to deal with the journey to compersion, which is not going to be overnight for my characters, and what those very human struggles look like for a couple who, somewhat "traditional couple" that was transitioning their relationship while still keeping their family intact.
Dedeker: I'm curious to hear from the actors as well about, "I don't know." I know that kind of people individually tend to have a wide variety of experience with like non-monogamy or non-traditional relationships. Some people are very, very intimately familiar with it and some people not at all, so I'm curious to hear from the actors, whoever it is that wants to talk about this, about your impressions when first getting involved with this project and with the subject matter.
Jammie: This is Jammie, playing Keena. One thing I had to deal with was my own judgment and a lot of my family's judgment. Again, Jackie, we had this conversation plenty times. I knew of polyamory, but I wasn't well-versed in the etiquettes and the verbs. I just didn't know. I knew of it, but I wasn't educated. Anyway, the hard part for me was not only just my own judgment but my fellow actors, other creatives who seem to be judging my choice and taken on this project, like I have people in my life that I respect wholeheartedly as creatives and they just won't comment on it.
They'll watch it, but they won't comment on it. It's so interesting that how the lines get blurred. It's like, I've played a murderer, I've played a hooker, but all of a sudden, there's this reservation when I'm playing a woman who's married, that wants a boyfriend too, it's really interesting. Yes. That's been my struggle.
Jase: That's something we ran into, especially in the early days of this podcast too of people who might listen to it and really enjoy it, but won't share it, won't post about it. It's like sort of a threateningness to it that I think freaks a lot of people out.
Jammie: Absolutely.
Jackie: There have been people who have told me if it was a-- Because the show itself is not really salacious. It's not over the top. It's not explicit. It's dealing with more emotional drama than anything over the top, but I've had people who will not follow the channel, who will not speak publicly about it because it's so taboo.
If they had been told that if it was a couple that was just cheating, it'd be a whole other different story. They'd be sharing and talking about it because it's this woman who wants to be non-monogamous, it's, "We can't do that." It's really interesting where you could share about serial killers, you watch Dexter, people pulling out people's spines from their backs, but something that deals with the complexity or a different way of being in relationships is so taboo and controversial.
Derrick: This was an interesting project when it came to me because reading the script. Usually, once I read a script, I go into researching and finding out about, but because of my character, didn't know anything about polyamory, and I myself didn't know anything about polyamory. I had never heard of it. I actually, when Jackie was telling me the name of it, I was like, "Compersion? You're sure you want to name it that?" I knew nothing about it and going into the first season, I knew nothing about it because I didn't want to make my character sympathetic to it, when in fact it wasn't. I didn't want to taint the performance. Since then, I think I'm going along the pace of the character because I'm really scared to like dive into it. We've attended a couple of events and things, so I've been around it a little bit more, and I understand it, but I haven't gone too much farther into it because Josh hasn't gone that far into it. It's a weird thing, and that's why it's one of the more challenging roles that I've actually had in that aspect.
Dedeker: Yes, it's interesting to kind of have to be keeping yourself a little bit in the dark quite intentionally.
Derrick: Yes but it works. It's been really helpful to do that.
Emily: Has being on a show about polyamorous people, has it changed anyone's perception about polyamory in general? Because it sounds like, Jammie, you maybe dove a little bit more into learning about it but maybe, Ka, I'm interested also in hearing from you, like, overall, is there a sense of, "Wow, polyamory was this one thing that I thought, and now, it's something different" or where has your journey been regarding that?
Ka: I've always kind of worked in that space without the label. I think Jackie was typecasting when she--
Jase: I was going to say, she did a good job of picking
Emily: Yes, very good.
Ka: Yes. Well, I'm really happy to see that we're dealing with these alternative styles of relating in drama, in film and TV projects. I think is long-overdue.
Emily: Yes. Loren, I'm really interested to see where your character goes because you are more of this traditional in the first season, like, "I am a woman who is having an affair with a married man" and that doesn't really delve into ethical non-monogamy at all. I wonder how was it portraying a character that was simply as you said in the show, like a mistress.
Loren: I related . It was really emotional but in a good way. I think what was more interesting for me as an actor was to hear all the responses from the audience on how I was crazy. I was like, "Really?"
Emily: Can you talk a little bit about that?
Loren: It was a little bit like I think Sophia is a strong character and a strong woman. She's really, really fun to play. It's been a good time. I was like, "Tell me where she's wrong." Like, explain. It was a little shocking but in a good way, I think, because I also do as an actor when I get to push the audience's buttons, that makes me very happy. I'm very happy about it.
Jackie: What's interesting, Loren, is the people that had a negative reaction to you were largely polyamorous. Those were the same who had a negative reaction to Derek, were largely polyamorous, and they had a positive reaction to Keena. Monogamous people, it was the reverse. You had some cheerleaders but largely the polyamorous community. They were hating on--
Jammie: Here's the thing. Honesty is important in all relationships.
Emily: Absolutely.
Jammie: Once you take honesty away, I think-- Whatever you practice, just be honest.
Jase: I think something that really struck me about this show in the first season and it seems to be continuing in the second season is that some of the only other content out there that deals with polyamory or ethical non-monogamy specifically, like that's the focus of the show, either tends to be very sensational, and like, "let's look at how much sex kinky sex they're having" and like, "Oh, wow, look, the three of them take showers, wow," or it's in this kind of-- I'm going to sort of criticize my own community here, but like kind of preachy of like, "Oh, this is so great," and like, "Look at how great it is."
What really struck me about this show is it's not either of those things. I think part of that is because, Jackie, you did such a good job of writing this story that has these sympathetic characters, that has realistic characters, but you weren't coming from a place of like, "I want to teach the world about how polyamory is great." Like, you yourself were also exploring it, and the fact that for the actors, there's kind of a similar thing going on. I think that is something really unique and I don't think exists anywhere else in the world of media representations of polyamory.
Jackie: Thank you for that. I always say that with this story, I'm not trying to do any sort of representation of polyamory as a whole. I'm showing these two people and their journey, and as the story expands, it will be about other individuals' journeys or experiences. It's never a blanket statement about polyamory. That's not the goal. It's to have a very human experience and journey through these characters for me, is why I wrote it. Sometimes, we get pushback from polyamorous people, like this is not a positive representation. This is not compersion. I'm like, "not yet," but it's--
Emily: Yes. It like, what? Two months into their journey?
Emily: Correct. It's not yet. Yes.
Jackie: And they wanting to make sure that journey, when they get to compersion and for however long they stay at that point is well earned. That what's interesting for me as a writer, to explore the challenges. When you arrive there, it's like, "You know what? You sure do deserve this and now let's complicate it a little bit more." drama.
Dedeker: It must be interesting because you and a lot of the actors have talked about. Again, kind of getting this weird mixture of responses of, of course, there's certain parts of the audience that are really rooting for particular characters or rooting for different characters. There is different parts of the audience feedback that has a lot of backlash about either this is not a good enough representation of polyamory or about why are you representing polyamory at all or why is this person doing this? I guess I'm kind of wondering that experience of it being such a charged topic matter that it sometimes feels like no one is going to be happy with how it's covered.
Jammie: I had an acting teacher once say, and I think this is in direct parallel with what's going on with Compersion. He used to say, the interesting part is not seeing you cry, is seeing you struggle against crying. Just seeing that conflict of, "I need to get this out." That's the same thing with compersion. It's boring to see compersion, but to see the journey to compersion. I was joking with Jackie, saying, that's what you need to change the title to, is the "journey to--" Alleviate all this pain that people are feeling about not seeing compersion, turn the title to "Journey to Compersion," but that's much more interesting to see the conflict and the journey than to see it wrapped up in a pretty rainbow. Yes.
Derrick: Yes. It is. I was thinking about the time when I'm telling people about the first season, and I'd explain, "I played a guy whose wife wants to see another guy," and the first thing to go, "Well, what do you guys do?" I said, "Well, we're figuring it out." They're so in a hurry to get to the end of it, to get to how does it happen, what happens at the end? I like this about the series, is that it does take the time to actually march through those roles, those happy moments, those experiences that gets you to the end of any relationship, with this one in particular, it's really fun in that aspect.
Dedeker: I'm curious, I know that something that I've known has happened in my own personal experience and that I've heard from other people, people who are more out about being non-monogamous or more willing to talk about their open relationship or open marriage. Sometimes, it has an interesting effect on people where like, if you talk about being in an open marriage or playing someone who's in an open marriage, that for some people, it's like, that's the seed of being able to divulge, "Oh my God, I had this really weird threesome this one time. I don't really know how to feel about it."
I guess I was wondering, in your guys' experience, when you're talking to people, does that ever happen? Like, do you ever get that response of people getting that seed of, "Oh my goodness. Okay. It's safe to talk about this."
Derrick: There was one time. I've only met one person outside of being at a poly gathering. I was at a game night, and I was talking to this girl, "Oh, you're an actor?" "Yes." I said, "I'm just working on this show. I just finished a show called Compersion. It's about polyamory." She was like, "Oh, I was poly, I was in a polyamorous relationship one time." I was like, "Oh, for real? Let me know. Tell me about it."
Derrick: Basically, she said that it didn't last long because the guy was kind of treating her like a girlfriend instead of the lady he was with. She got more attention or he treated her as the number one. I got some information of how the relationship works just from her. I think when I finished the first season when I met her on that, but I was like, "Oh, okay." That's the only person that I've actually opened up. I've talked to a lot of people about it. I had a couple of people stop me in a grocery store because they recognized me from the show.
Dedeker: Oh, wow.
Derrick: They wouldn't say if they were or not. They were like, "Oh, yes, you're from that show." I was like, "What show?" It was like I was like, "Oh, yes, exactly, exactly.
Emily: It's amazing.
Derrick: It was really interesting. Yes.
Emily: We are recording this episode of the podcast when one episode of Compersion season two has dropped. I'm curious because it's been four years. I know at the time of the last recording of our podcast, when we had you on, Jackie, that you were doing an Indiegogo campaign, we were trying to get funding for season two. Can you talk about that process? Four years later, here we are. Also, at that time, I remember you talking about how hot season two is going to be and you did not disappoint amazing. Yes, it was a really great episode and very, very sexy, very like a lot of tension there. What went into making season two a reality finally after all this time?
Jackie: We did have an Indiegogo campaign, and I was trying to raise 65,000. We did not raise nowhere near that. I think we raised maybe under 14 or 14-15, somewhere around that. It was such a laborious process. I hate fundraising with a deep passion, but I so appreciate all the people who contributed and helped make season two. You could do things fast and quick if you have money and good, or it takes time if you don't have money to make it good. We were able to, I think we did principal photography two years ago, I think, was it two years ago for the second season?
We had picked up the episode, the first episode before that, but the main principal photography for the second season was like two years ago, and we shot for seven days, and we were able to get it done because my actors love me and they're willing to work for snacks.
I had a great crew who worked for far below their rate. Then, what took the longest process was the post-production because I was the editor, the syncer, the chief, and it just took so much time to go through, probably like I don't know how many hours of footage, but we had hours upon hours upon hours of footage, and I also have to work and do other things, so it was a longer process, but I'm very happy with what we got. Our first two episodes are shorter, but the last four or five episodes are about 18 to 20 something minutes, and like you saw, we kind of pick up where we left off. We're going to do a little bit of a time jump for the third episode, but it's still all in line.
It's not five years ahead of time. It might be a few months down the road, it's still-- but there is some great growth that happens in that small time jump. Yes but it's a labor of love. It's something that I have seasons upon seasons in my head that I hope to be able to do. I love working with these four folks in front of you, and they're all back. There's things happening with all the loves, but yes, it was a hard process. It's not easy, like the way that we shoot, we shoot professionally. We're not shooting on iPhones with a lamp.
We have a crew, camera people and lights and sound and we rent locations. I have to do production design. Yes, it's a labor of love and that's why I took four years because I'm not independently wealthy.
Dedeker: Not yet, anyway.
Jackie: Not yet, it's coming
Dedeker: Because this has been a process, I'm wondering the media landscape that you were producing into four years ago versus like two years ago when you were doing principal photography for season two versus now when you're releasing, what have been the things that you've noticed of the things that have changed over that time, especially in regards to like how people respond to this subject?
Jackie: I would say that, what I've noticed, there are more Facebook groups, there are more social media platforms, there are more people who are vocal and will say, "I'm poly, I'm proud" out loud. I still think in regards to compersion, publicly there's more happening in private groups about compersion than there is on the YouTube page. There's still that amount of protectiveness about relationship status and not wanting to be outside of a protected group, be associated with it, which is still interesting. I would say like over the course of when I first did it to now, it's such an explosive, somewhat saturated experience of polyamory.
Emily: For the cast, has your experience changed over these last four years in terms of where you feel like the subject material kind of took you to now having kind of that hindsight and just the landscape changing in general or you're, like people watching it, have they watched it and said, "Oh, now I'm like, this is easier to watch" because it's more like a known quantity out in the world, polyamory is.
Jammie: Well, can I say that, just to be totally candid, when I first started this series with Jackie, this journey, I was in a very, very, very serious relationship with a man. Fast forward eight years later, I'm in a very, very, very serious relationship with a woman. Out. There was a point in my life where I never thought I'd be out, but a little bit attributing to this journey has made me more accepting of myself and more accepting of being outside the box, and not seeing so much as categories. We get so PC and there's a line that Jackie wrote.
I think it's the date night episode where Colt is talking about his aunt and how his aunt's love is not a mother's love. Keena says, "love is love." That resonates so fully for me now, having taken this journey and just everything that I've been through since 2012 until now, it's just really-- It's been a cosmic journey, has been very synergistic, has been very revealing, and I'm thirsty for more. I feel like I'm very much a kindergartener when it comes to polyamory and really knowing what polyamory is. You can know all the terms and the etiquette but not really know what it is to experience compersion. Really be happy that your lover is happy, you know? It's been a journey. I'm looking forward to more.
Emily: Wow, that's wonderful.
Loren: That's so beautiful, Jammie.
Jammie: So get to writing, girl. Get to pitching.
Jackie: Listen, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm trying. One woman over here. I just need to get that cash. It will be rolling .
Jase: All right. I wanted to talk a little bit about the actual show itself, and I don't want to have any spoilers or anything, although first season has been out for like four years, so it gets like a tiny bit spoiled, that's kind of your own fault, but everyone go out there and watch that first season so you don't have to worry about this, but something that really struck me in the second season in this first episode, that's the only one we've seen at the point that we're recording this, is that Ka, your character Colt, he has always been so chill, so sort of aloof, and unaffected by things.
I felt like at the beginning of season two is the first time we're seeing how-- When we watched this stuff in the first season go down with Josh and Keena, where they're-- I'm like, how do I say this without spoilers for people who haven't watched season one, but maybe it can't be avoided.
Emily: Do you care, Jackie?
Jackie: Just say it. Just say it. It's too late. It's been out . Just go.
Emily: Deal with it, people.
Jase: All right. There's this just horribly painful scene to watch in the first season, but it's so true, which is why I love it. When Josh makes Keena break up with Colt over the phone in front of him. It's so painful because that's real-- I mean, it's a shitty thing to do, but it is a real thing that happens. That's absolutely a thing that we've heard people talk about, that kind of thing happening in their relationships. If not exactly like that on the phone in front of me, but that feeling of kind of being forced to break up with a relationship not because of that relationship not working out but because of this extra force outside of that relationship, usually that primary partner, the husband or the wife or something like that.
We got to see how painful that was from their point of view. We didn't really see so much what was happening with Colt during that time. I feel like right at the start of season two, we kind of got our first hints of, "Yes, this is a bigger world. This affects more than just our two people in this main couple, that his character was also affected." I was just curious to hear from you, Ka, what that was like getting to have that moment for your character.
Ka: Well, I think you all were speaking to it, and I think Jammie spoke to it earlier as well talking about how it's not just about sex. In fact, this has nothing to do with sex when you really get right down to. I don't know. I could really be in that space, honestly, with Colt, with what was going on, because it was a horrible thing. It was a horrible feeling to be having someone torn away from you for reasons outside of you all working. It was a beautiful piece of conflict that Jackie had created. It was relatable.
Emily: All of your performances were so relatable. I kept sitting there and saying, "Hey, this, in some way or another, has happened to so many people that I know," like little moments of what all of you went through. Loren, too, also sitting there and knowing, "Shit, this woman had no idea what was going on." We don't even see her dealing with the fact that polyamory was a thing that these two people were interested in and that a real relationship with you could have happened. I can't wait to hopefully see you back again in season two and see where that takes you. Yes. Exactly. It was just all of you. Your performances were so well done and so It was awesome.
Jammie: Thank you.
Dedeker: I think there was something interesting. I don't know if this was intentional on your part, Jackie, in writing this, but it's almost like with these four characters, we get these archetypes that serve as touchpoints to a lot of the non-monogamous experience for a lot of people. If I even think about my own life, I've had experiences where I've been the person realizing, "Oh my God, this person that I'm sleeping with, their partner has no idea that I'm in the picture." I've been the one like Joshua's character where it's like, "I don't even know what's going on. I wasn't totally expecting this. I need to learn about this."
I've been in Keena's shoes of being the one, "actually I'm kind of driving this, and this is something I'm interested in," and also cause position of like, "Things are happening outside of my control and influencing my relationship." I say that more to continue to make the pitch for all the listeners out there that there's this interesting representation of just so, so, so many different ways that this can show up and manifest for people sometimes, all at the same time, or within the same person. I also wanted to talk a little bit about something that we haven't quite touched on quite yet, but the fact that there's kids involved in this story.
It's not just about this young couple in their 20s having a grand old time experimenting with this. Like you said, Jackie, it's really important to keep it as this family drama. Knowing that this is also a hot-button issue for a lot of people in general of when you talk about non-monogamy or open marriages, it's always like, "Oh my God but what about the kids?" I wanted to open up that topic for everybody as well because that adds another layer of complication in this storytelling.
Jackie: Absolutely. When I was thinking about the story, I was like, "Of course, they have kids. They've been married for 15 years." I didn't want not to say that if you are in your 20s and you don't have any children, you're engaged in a non-monogamous relationship, but you don't have things at stake that there's not your heart at stake or whatever that may be. I really wanted to make sure that there were a few things at stake in this relationship. By them being a family, a traditional church-going family, they have been traditional their whole marriage and that the fact that they have children, that they just can't say, "We're quitting. If you want to do this, I'm out of here." I didn't want any easy outs.
I wanted them to have to deal with the situation at hand. The children are going to come into play when their family finds out that they're non-monogamous. That's a whole other exploration as well. It's really about a family. It's a family drama. It's not just about hot sex. It's about emotions. It's about complications. There will be hot sex though.
Dedeker: Thank goodness.
Emily: Give the people what they want.
Jackie: It has to be earned, especially outside of Keena and Joshua's primary relationship. To show that on screen, it has to be earned. Kids are definitely very important. Even in the first season, you have Joshua's parents that play a role. Hopefully, if we continue more seasons, you will see Keena's family play a role and Sophia's family play a role and how all these things converge on each other.
Dedeker: Now, it seems like reactions from the cast where some people were like, "What? Is there hot sex?" And some people were like, "Yes, totally." Now, I just have so many questions.
Jackie: There's going to be hot sex.
Derrick: I just want to reiterate. The couple that stopped me in the grocery store had their daughter with them. They are like, "This show, with the couple and the--"
Jackie: There's plenty of polyamorous people who have children.
Jammie: Absolutely.
Jackie: It's not just a thing for 20-year-olds. There are 40, 30, 50, 60-year-olds with grandchildren who have had polyamorous relationships. It's really wanting to explore it in a different manner because even when I first came up with an idea to do compersion, like you said, it was things, they were like, "Oh, this is plus, and we're just having threesomes." It was never really dealing with the emotional component of having multiple relationships, love relationships at the same time.
Dedeker: I'm remembering the last time that we had you on the show, Jackie. We were talking a lot about diversity and storytelling and talking about the fact that for a long time, the polyamorous community, as far as representation goes, has had problems with having enough representation of non-white people practicing polyamory.
Of course, that echoes and mirrors everything that's going on in the bigger media community as a whole, particularly with Hollywood only in the last six months or so kind of finally being more vocal about there being general representation issues. I guess I wanted to hear from all of you about how that shift has felt over the course of the last four to eight years or however long the arc of this project has been.
Jammie: I'd like to say thank goodness for social media, thank goodness for the internet because we're getting a more dynamic, a more full representation of who people are in general. We're not just getting Hollywood. We're not just getting the news. It's still very much two-dimensional, but thank goodness, we're getting more varied views. I want to say that really 2020 is not anything new. 2020 has been the age of things coming to light. What's done in the dark is going to come to light. We're seeing things that we haven't seen before, thank goodness.
It's making us more empathetic, especially with COVID. We're more empathetic and more realizing that we're all connected, we're all one. I judge you, I judge myself. One conversation, I remember going to a cousin's, this is two years ago, I went to a cousin's repass in Ohio. I'm from Youngstown, Ohio, very insulated, very stuck, and old times. Grew up in a very Baptist black household. A cousin of mine who's like an aunt, she's older, was saying about her daughter. Her daughter recently came out the closet, and she was saying, "I was visiting her and her wife, and I'm fine with it, but what do you say to the kids?
What do you say to your kids when one mommy is coming out of the other mommy's room?" In that moment, I was so offended as a woman who's in a serious relationship with another woman like, "How dare you compare my intimacy and say that this is not okay just because of our physical attributes?" but I realized polyamorous people are going through the same thing. You're judging based on your socialization, based on your conditioning and it's so unfortunate. If we can just get rid of all these labels. I appreciate that, what you were saying, Ka, earlier is that you really don't get into the labels and the rules and the dogma of it, it just is. If we can just get to being just is without all the labels, without all the blue and the red and Republican and Democrat. Just get rid of it and just be good people.
Ka: I think it's important to know that. Personally, and I'm really aware of this, I work with a different kind of privilege than you do because ain't nobody confronted me about how I relate ever. Nobody, woman, man, elder, younger, nobody. My mama wouldn't, and she's passed away now, but even when she was here. I think it's probably in part the reason why I am the way I am, but my mother never questioned me. I know that's crazy to hear from a child saying about his parents, but my mom never questioned me. I've always walked through the world with a sense of, "Yes, and what about it?"
Jammie: That’s very freeing.
Ka: Yes, it is very freeing and it’s the reason why I'm supportive of people like Jackie or even you who are doing these explorative exercises, or digging deep and enforcing people to deal with the difference because the difference is as normal as what is considered so-called normal. I'm a warrior for that shit, personally.
Jammie: I appreciate you being a warrior for that. You give the rest of us courage.
Ka: Even a question about the kids is like-- like you were speaking to us, it's the conditioning. The kids are good. The kids are all right. In some movies, the kids are all right, but I’m saying if the kids are all right, if anything, I worry about what that parent is doing with that kid’s mind and what kind of limitations are being imposed on that kid. That's what I worry about. Being a professor, I see it. You know because you went to Howard. I teach at Howard. I see in the classroom every day where I feel like, "Wow."
I talk to my kids and I'm like, "Yo, y'all sound older than me, but I'm not mad at you because I know that’s your momma talking or that's your daddy talking, but are you aware that being your mother or your father talking and how that may limit your artistry?" I'm also on a mission to change the world into artists. Everybody in the world needs to be an artist of some sort.
Jase: I love that.
Emily: That's amazing.
Dedeker: For it, yes. Loren, you were going to jump in.
Loren: Yes, I just wanted to say, I was introduced to polyamory early on, I remember being shocked, just through a friend group and someone. I was like, "Oh, whoa, this happens?" I think since then, and I actually worked on another script, a workshop script that I'm playing a polyamorous character. I'm not quite here, I don't think, but you have to watch to figure out what the hell I am. My point is, I feel like through the years, and I think it's part of maybe the circles that I roll in with artists, and I think it's important to just be the more open you are and comfortable you are. For me, it's become very much normalized to see people in different relationships. It's just whatever floats your boat. It's a very beautiful thing, you can find love wherever you find it, however you find it.
Derrick: I don't know if it's to this topic, but there's one thing that I pulled from being introduced to polyamory through working on this, is that the idea of jealousy, which was a really interesting thing. I haven't done a lot, but from what I gathered, the aspect of jealousy, and it caused me to examine the concept of jealousy and what leads one to that. I have been able to grab ahold to those emotions that run wild when things click in. When that sense of jealousy creep in, I'm able to now process it and go, "Okay, why am I?" and then figure out those triggers and work on myself about that sense of spark or that reaction that I have when things make me feel a certain way and I consider it jealousy. That's been a really great thing for me in working on this.
Dedeker: It sounds like this project has helped you become enlightened, is what you're saying, Derick?
Derrick: No, seriously, it has. That aspect of jealousy in any kind of relationship doesn't do any good because it usually doesn't really spark a real conversation, it just creates reactions that are turned into other reactions that doesn't really accomplish anything. That's been a very, very cool thing that I've taken from working on this project.
Jackie: For me, when I started writing and directing, my goal was to create more roles for women of the African diaspora that really reflected the diverse amount of experiences that we have. I also like to provoke thought and to make people think about things that they don't think about, or are challenged to think about things in new ways. I tend to tackle what some might consider "controversial" subject matter, but with black faces and black experiences, that I think oftentimes we are left out. Like Jammie said, I think it's amazing that we have all these different means of distribution where we can tell stories that are not in the mainstream and we don't have to wait for someone to give us permission to tell the stories or to show the characters that we are aching to see.
Jase: That right there is just one of the most beautiful things about the internet, I think, is just that. We don't have to wait for someone's permission to put something out there. That's really cool.
Loren: In the same breath, it is hard. It's hard to create shows like this. I know Jackie has struggled and we have all. She's so beyond talented.
Emily: All of you are.
Loren: Thank you, I'll take it.
Loren: No, but ain't we all? It's just a matter of time before she's going to get snatched up. It feels like the networks industry are looking for voices and other stories in diversity. For me, from the people I know that are extremely talented, aka Jackie, who we have in front of us who you know her work, it's still not happening fast enough for me. It's not happening fast enough, and it still pisses me off.
Dedeker: It does sound like you're saying that we're all getting in on the ground floor with Jackie Stone, and then that's how we'll all be millionaires that we're getting it.
Jase: We're all going to write her cook tales, yes.
Dedeker: Like the multi-level marketing sort of.
Loren: Yes, but she should have a deal, she should have a show. She should be directing and we should all be names.
Dedeker: Agreed.
Jase: I agree.
Jase: I support that.
Emily: Yes, absolutely.
Jackie: I'm sorry, Jammie, to cut you off, but just very briefly. The talent, all these people that have decided to lend their creativity to compassion, Ka'ramuu, Jammie, Loren, Derrick, they're all well-trained actors. They're all SAG actors. They've had years of experience, they have feature films, they have television show credits. They're just very talented. It's very humbling when you get to work with actors that can take nuanced material and make it their own and bring their own thing to it and come to me and say, "I don't think my character say this or do this, Josh, Derrick, or Jammie."
Really pushing me also creatively and being vulnerable because a lot of the work that we're doing in Compersion, you have to have a huge degree of vulnerability and trust, and it's just really great to have a team. These are like my team members that really will go there with me because you guys are all amazingly talented. Thank you for working for crackerjacks.
Dedeker: Oh, that's how the sausage is made, I see.
Jackie: Loren, you were saying something. I cut somebody off, I can't remember. Jammie?
Jammie: Girl, I don't know, I was going to big you up about something, but whatever.
Jammie: Thank you for bringing us all together, Jackie.
Jase: We want to ask all of you a big open question here at the end and that is, what are your hopes for the future? You can take that as you will. It could be just about Compersion, it could be bigger than that, it could be for yourself, whatever it is. Whoever wants to go, I'd love to hear from each of you.
Ka: My hopes for the future, especially for Compersion is I hope it will get picked up on a platform that will allow it to actually be what it is and not try to shape it and make it nice. Allow it to actually fulfill its destiny because it is a show that, not only polyamory people can look at and relate to but I think as I realize from being on the show is that it has points and principles and things that anybody can pull from. I'm praying that this will go in that direction.
Jammie: What I hope, what I will for Compersion is that the right people will see it and pick it up and replace Wanderlust, who probably get off of Jackie's story. No, I'm kidding.
Jammie: I hope and I will bet Compersion has legs. For the big picture, I hope that we can get outside of our boxes. I don't mean that just as far as romantic relationships, but just in general. I grew up living in several different families. I have five different mothers, three different fathers, and I'm very blessed to have had that. If we can just get outside our boxes as humans, I think we'll be better off. That's the big picture. My big picture hope.
Loren: I second what those two said. I really do hope Compersion falls into the right hands and is not manipulated, but stays pure on what it is, and I hope that there are more shows like that. More outlets of showing a diverse people and be different experiences, and I hope I get to play more beautifully character-driven roles, and that we all do. Sometimes it's really frustrating to see the lack of it.
Jackie: On a macro level for the future, I'm hoping for a major healing of the globe during this pandemic. I just want people to have access to vaccination.
Ka: I just pray and trust that the work that's been invested, that continues to be invested by Jackie receives its just due. That we get to do work that we enjoy and that connects with people as far as people dig deeper and dialogue like this, this is beautiful. A beautiful platform to have these kinds of discussions and more.
Jackie: On a macro level, for the future, I'm hoping for a major healing of the globe during this pandemic. I just want people to have access to vaccination and healthcare and a healing. I want to be able to see my godson that Loren gave birth to a year ago on a regular basis, I want to be able to see my friends and connect again. I want black people not to be murdered in the streets just for being black. That's what I wish for the future on a macro level. On a more personal level, I would love to be developing Compersion for HBO or Netflix or Showtime or what have you.
I would love to be able to collaborate more with my actors and to cast with them because I don't want to cast someone else, and then to receive their just due. I want to continue to create and be able to make a living creating and building relationships. Like Ka'ramuu said, continuing to create dialogue and continue to create stories that push people to think differently, to go outside their boxes, and to have compassion and empathy for their fellow person.
Emily: Wonderful. That's a great note to end on. First, we want to hear from all the actors, from Ka, Derrick, Loren, Jammie. Can you talk to us about where people can find more of you, more of your work if there's anything in particular right now that you're wanting to promote of your own work as well?
Jammie: You caught me off guard. I recently took a break from social media, so I'm not on Instagram or Twitter, but I keep a Facebook account just to keep in touch with my older relatives. You can find be \Jammie, J-A-M-M-I-E Patton on Facebook. I'm working on my first feature. I've been working on it for forever that I directed and wrote and acted in with my film-making partner, Crystal Cotton, also from Ohio, so look out for that. That's coming in the next few months. Look out for more Compersion on Enchant TV on YouTube.
Emily: Lovely.
Jammie: Crystal was also in an episode with Ka'ramuu. She played the flirt.
Jase: Oh, yes.
Emily: Oh, yes, she does.
Jammie: Yes, we're from the same town in Ohio.
Emily: Teacher's pet. Oh, nice.
Jase: That's awesome.
Derrick: This is Derrick LeMont. I'm on all the platforms, well, not all the platforms, Twitter.
Dedeker: Every single one.
Derrick: Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, I don't know, but It's all under Derrick LeMont. L-E-M-O-N-T. Derrick with two Rs, I-C-K. I've done a couple of shorts in the last year or so. I don't know where they are, they don't tell me, but if they do come out, I'll be leaving the information on those platforms. I've gone into some writing. I'm working on a series right now. We're trying our hand at writing.
Jammie: Can I butt in and say that Derrick is a phenomenal writer. I've actually read two of his scripts and he's an amazing writer and actor.
Derrick: Just trying to get it out there. That's where I'm at right now. Thank you, guys.
Emily: That's amazing.
Loren: I'll go next. I'm Loren Lillian and I am @LorenLillian on Instagram. I am a new mom, so I've been focusing on that, but I'm prepping to shoot a feature film which I'm really excited about because it also has great saucy characters and stories. I can't really say too much about it, but it'll be good. I've got projects of my own that I'm also working on. Got to stay busy during these times when you are inside.
Emily: Amazing, and Ka.
Ka: I have a very sporadic relationship with social media, but I do have a website, ka'ramuu.com. K-A-R-A-M-U-U.com and I teach. In fact, this Friday coming up, I'm going to be teaching a live open class on the Clubhouse platform. I'm going to be also hosting a discussion with Shaka King, director of the film Judas and the Black Messiah. It's going to have Howard, Jammie. Howard is going to be my Howard University.
Jammie: Excuse me, and Loren.
Jackie: Loren, Howard.
Loren: Don't leave me out, I'm a Bison.
Jackie: with Jackie.
Loren: What, is your mind blown? Yes.
Ka: Loren, you went to Howard?
Loren: Yes, I'm a Bison.
Jammie: We were in a play together.
Loren: Through and through.
Jammie: That's House of Bernarda Alba.
Jackie: Okay, focus because we're getting rabid.
Ka: So we got two Bisons here. Again, I'm a professor at Howard University and I'll be hosting my first open class on the Clubhouse. Shaka King will come through and talk with the students and build the students a little bit. We're doing that. Yes, you all can catch me online.
Emily: What do you teach at Howard?
Ka: I teach in the Department of Theater Arts, anything for TV and film.
Dedeker: Nice.
Emily: Oh, yes, that's so great.
Ka: Also some dance too.
Emily: Wow. Oh my goodness.
Dedeker: Great.
Emily: Jackie, are there more things that I need? Clearly, you're working a ton on Compersion, but anything else that we can be excited about regarding you?
Jackie: Let's see. I'm working on a coming-of-age thriller called Imprint. I'm working on a series that follows two sisters who work in a femdom dungeon called House of Dominique. I just finished directing two episodes of a new TV series called Johnson's that's going to be premiering in the summer on Bounce TV. I'm trying to survive homeschooling with my niece. Homeschooling is horrible. Those are the things that I'm working on. I'm also working on getting fit again because COVID pounds are real. I'm trying to get some muscle back. People can follow me, I have a website jackiejstone.com, and then with Enchant TV on Instagram and Twitter @TheEnchantTV, and also on Facebook.
Emily: We hope that our listeners that one at least review will put the show into the right hands, give it to somebody at HBO or Netflix or to someone and be like, "This clearly needs to go to infinity and beyond." Also, in the meantime, are there ways to continue to give to the show if we want to help fund future seasons?
Jackie: Absolutely. I think at www.enchant.tv\donate, people can contribute there. Also subscribing to the YouTube channel would be great so we just know who's really interested in the programming and when we have a call to action. Also, what I'm thinking for maybe the last two episodes, we might be selling those for maybe $2 or $3, the longer episodes. People who really enjoy the show and want to see it move forward, it'd be great for them, too, a little pocket change to support that.
Dedeker: Great. Awesome.