393 - Polysaturated But Still Thirsty - Listener Q&A Episode
We’re back with another Q&A with questions from our Patreon subscribers! This episode is a discussion around the following questions:
What are your tips for communicating to those you're in relationships with about having limited availability and managing expectations, whether those relationships are newly forming or established?
What do you do if you have figured out you are poly-saturated, but are still lacking sexual connection you want and have never been good at friends with benefits before?
Is it normal/healthy to feel homesick for an existing partner when out on dates with new people? How do you work on that? I'm worried I don't allow myself to feel open to other connections, maybe due to past relationships/abuse, maybe due to some unworked through compulsive monogamy. I've been in this world for about 7 years and still haven't had two concurrent fully fledged romantic relationships.
When, if ever, do you break up on behalf of a miserable partner who has made it clear they do not like some aspect of your relationship that is not changing and they’ve agreed to that. Assuming you personally are otherwise content in the relationship, perhaps aside from the processing of their discontent?
My partner recently began dating someone we have both been friends with for several months. I’ve really appreciated their friendship so far and would like to keep it going. However I’m not usually open to kitchen table style polyamory and prefer to not interact with my metamours very often. How do I tackle maintaining a meaningful established friendship while respecting my own boundaries?
I feel compersion when my nesting partner tells me about her sexual experiences with others, past and present. In fact it is sexually stimulating for me. I do not however, feel compersion when it comes to her having emotional, meaningful connections with others. Why is it easy for me to "be ok" with her sexual escapades, but not her emotional connections with others?
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Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: On this episode at the Multiamory Podcast, we're going to be answering questions submitted by our Patreon supporters about their relationships. If you would like to be able to submit your own questions, join our Patreon and look for our posts asking for submissions for these episodes. We get so many fantastic questions and while we can't always answer all of them, we do see a lot of overlap and try to group them by themes, so hopefully everyone's able to get something out of this.
The fact that we see the same things come up often enough, means there's other people out there with the same questions. These have been really cool to do and let us get into some of these details of some questions that wouldn't really fit an entire episode-long topic all by itself, but allows us to get into some of these things. Thank you so much to everyone who submitted your questions, and we're excited to keep doing this.
Dedeker: Of course, we always have to give the disclaimer that you out there listening with this podcast right up in your little ears, you're the only person who fully knows yourself and your life and what's important to you. When we answer a question, we're basing off of just what's written to us in usually a short question that is only a tiny little snapshot of what's going on in this person's life. Of course, take any of our advice and opinions as suggestions or as an opportunity for some perspective. Ultimately, you make your own decisions about what's right for you, and also with a lot of these questions, there usually isn't one right answer.
Emily: On that note, let us begin with the first question.
Jase: Are you like a cool theme song for this stories.
Emily: Exactly.
Dedeker: But I've done, but I've done.
Emily: It's like price is right or something like, come on down, the first question.
Dedeker: I do love the idea of building a whole TV studio set, very prices. Flashy, bright colors, people in the audience dressing up, looking silly, but it's all about these very serious relationship topics.
Emily: I like that too.
Jase: There's have got to be a giant wheel that people spin for some reason. Like, how good of advice they're going to get.
Emily: Oh gosh.
Jase: I guess they are all metaphorically spinning that wheel every time, so.
Dedeker: That's true. With the three of us.
Emily: Yes, good luck. We're going to try to give you some good advice here. Here is the first question. What are your tips for communicating to those you're in relationships with about having limited availability and managing expectations, whether those relationships are newly forming or already established? This is a good one.
Dedeker: Can we normalize just going ahead and sending screenshots of your Google calendar to potential partners?
Emily: Oh, do you that?
Dedeker: Sure. You could. You can take a screenshot of whatever and send it to somebody and just be like, "Just so you know, this is what my life looks like right now."
Emily: I was thinking today about what I had to do. I woke up early to go to the dentist and then I helped a friend record an audition, and then I came home and am about to record four episodes of this podcast. I was like, "Yes, that's a pretty big day. I think that's going to take me all the way up until almost bedtime." I think on those days with my partner, he knows, "Yes, okay, this is going to be a big day for Emily, so in terms of emotional availability, it may be lessened."
That is knowledge over years and years of doing stuff like this and having really, really big days. I think it's perfectly okay to tell somebody, "Hey, I may be less responsive today to your texts, I may not be able to take a phone call, I may be shorter in my answers to you just simply because I have such a limited availability and such a limited amount of time today." That's perfectly okay. Communication is what we talk about on this show.
Dedeker: I think it's occurring to me that this is a little bit tricky because of the fact that, often this is a variable thing. As in for some people they go through periods of life, whether it could be a few weeks to a few years where it's like, "I don't have a ton of bandwidth, but maybe that's going to change." I do think it is hard to show up to a first date metaphorically and to be like, "This is exactly the amount of time that I have for developing this type of relationship. Take it or leave it."
I do think that, like you're saying Emily, I think this is something that requires constant communication around, because it's really easy to fall into routine, it's really easy for there to be assumptions and so this is probably going to be a conversation that happens multiple times, especially in an established relationship.
Jase: I think one other thing that's important to point out here is that we've talked about being busy and like, "Look how much is on my calendar, I'm so busy." Something we have talked about in the past, but maybe haven't addressed as much recently is that there's also a lot of importance to just, because I have free time doesn't necessarily mean it needs to go to all my partners.
Dedeker: That's fine. That is the danger of sharing your google calendar.
Jase: Exactly. It's like a ha, I see you have this three-hour slot on Wednesday evening. That's mine now.
Emily: No, that's sometimes going to be necessary for me to recover from all of the other things that I'm doing.
Jase: I think this one's interesting too because it says whether those are newly forming or established, and I do think the way you communicate this is quite different in those two scenarios. With a newly established relationship, that's an interesting question, but it's also one that at least in my experience does tend to come up in conversation early on. It's like, well maybe after that first date it's like, when do we want to see each other again, or when would be a good time? It comes up organically of like, here's the thing, I really value my alone time and I'm also fairly busy, maybe took on a new project at work, or I just moved or whatever it is, so I've got a lot of stuff going on and also need my own time as well.
What if we just aimed for once a week or once every other week or whatever, or twice a week, whatever feels good to you as just a ballpark to set that expectation. I have found that to be really helpful for myself and specifically what I've had to learn for myself is to state that my availability is much less than I want to tell them it is in the moment. Because I'm excited about this new person, and so I have so many times gotten myself into this situation where it's like, I just want to see them because I'm excited and there's an array, and so we're seeing each other three, four times a week.
Then when another partner comes into town or work gets a little busier or just that an array starts to wane a little bit or I just start to get tired because I'm not sleeping enough, or whatever it is, then I have to back off on that, and that can be a harder conversation. Still doable and you can still be clear about, "Hey I've been really excited to spend time with you, but also I do really need more time for myself and more time to recover. I need to set something like this."
Then to actually stick to that, even when you do have that extra surprise time, that's at least something I've learned for myself for those newer relationships. I guess that could apply in existing ones too, but I tend to run into that problem more with newer ones.
Dedeker: I think when it comes to new relationships, there's a tricky balance between being upfront like that and very clear of right now I can probably really only see someone once a month, or once a week, or whatever it is. Between that and I think the shadow side of that can be trying to fit someone into a very particular shape. Something I've always really struggled with is like, how do you be honest about this is the space in my life that I have for this right now, versus setting up this weird expectation of like, "This is a particular shape and you have to fit into this if you're going to work and there's no ands, ifs or buts about it and there's no negotiation, it's not going to change. You just need to fit that and if you don't fit that perfectly, then you're out of here."
It feels like trying to find a middle path there. That's why I think that it's like, you're going to be coming back to this conversation as conditions change and as expectations change also, because sometimes you may be surprised you kept some deep feelings for someone you find, oh, actually, maybe we're really compatible, and you realize your priorities shift a little bit. Maybe I want to open up a little more time for this person, or opposite, maybe it's this relationship wasn't quite what I thought it was going to be and so maybe I don't want to be trying to prioritize this much time. Of course, doing your best to ethically and compassionately communicate that to folks but yes, I think that's the thing is just knowing that you may need to expand yourself and be ready for some nuance and seeking some balance with that.
Jase: Then I think like Emily said, for those established ones, it is more about having some way to more honestly communicate about that, even if it is asking for time for yourself which I know for a lot of people in established relationships it's hard to do because that can also feel like well, wait, you're taking time away from me after all this time? What's the matter? Is this the beginning of the end? It leads to some of that fearful thoughts, that can be a hard thing when you do realize that, but that's why doing something like radar of having a regular container of we're going to talk about this serious stuff here, not when it's because I'm exhausted and freaking out, but just because we had this time scheduled, so now we're going to talk about this. That can help to communicate as explicitly and clearly and compassionately as possible.
Emily: Yes, my partner and I might do like one night every few weeks or something where we're like, okay, instead of sitting on the couch and watching TV and eating like we usually do, we'll have the night to ourselves to do our own thing, play or on video games, or whatever, catch up on stuff if we want and that's really beneficial as well. Don't forget about yourself, because I think a lot of people are like, "I have to fill every second of every day," I know I'm like that.
Jase: For my partners. Yes.
Emily: Yes, exactly.
Dedeker: Especially if-- I feel like this happens with hinges a lot. If you're running around feeling like no one is happy with the amount of time that they're getting from you and you feel this pressure to be like, every free time I have I have to give it to somebody, that's probably a red flag that something's got to give, something's got to shift. Are we ready to move along to the next question?
Jase: Yes.
Dedeker: What do you do if you figured out you're polyunsaturated, but are still lacking sexual connection that you want and have never been good at friends with benefits before? I believe this was your inspiration for the title of this episode, Jase about polyunsaturated but still thirsty.
Jase: Yes, I love that title much.
Emily: The first thing that came to mind, and this might be controversial, but I was thinking what if you went to dungeons or sex clubs, or kink clubs or something along those lines where it's a specified place for you to do and engage in these things, but you're not necessarily going to be engaging further with someone in a romantic way, or where you have partners that will continue over time, but just where you can enjoy yourself for the evening or multiple evenings or something along those lines? I don't know, what are you two think?
Jase: It's definitely an interesting one, I think that the challenge with it is you have to have something like that around a lot of them, you have to be a member of it. Third is you have to be into that aesthetic, and also that way of interacting with people which for some people is like awesome, a great way to get that need met, and for other people, it's just not the right fit or whatever. I think something else just-- to give another possibility of a different way of approaching this is something like seeing if in your area there's a cuddle party group or some other kind of touch base that's not sexual because it's possible that that also might be part of what that need is about is kind of like touching intimacy, but not sexual necessarily, it could be. I'm not saying that's 100% for sure, but I do like to always say, huh, maybe I'm just needing more touch right now before I think that it has to be this, just as another option.
Dedeker: Actually, yes, that's a good path of questioning, I think is, you can start with looking at when you feel like that sense of lack or feeling that longing for more sexual connection or variety or whatever it is that you can I think dive down into, well, where is that coming from. I think there's a lot of reasons why we can want sex, whether it's with new people, existing people, whatever, you can want more sexual connection because you want to feel sexy because you want to feel desirable, you want to feel attractive, or it could straight up be I'm just like really horny all the time and I need more orgasms.
It could be I want to flirt with something-- I think there's a lot of different reasons that can go into it and sometimes if you pick apart and unpack those reasons that can help give you more clues about what you might want to pursue. It could be things in your existing relationships because if the whole point here is that you're polysaturated and don't have a ton of time and energy to devote to trying to connect with someone new that sometimes if you actually get down below the surface about what's underneath this craving and this longing, it can help spark some other ideas about how you might scratch that itch, that maybe doesn't involve having to go to casual sex or acquire more partners or things like that.
Emily: I am interested in this part, the second part of the question saying that they've never been good at friends with benefits before, and I wonder what there is to unpack there? Is it because friends with benefits turn into a relationship or they have a hard time maintaining it, or they have a hard time finding it? I think of all the activities and stuff that I do in my day and how it might be easy to find people in that respect, but I do wonder what's going on there and if that's a solution, if one were to get better at that, I don't know.
Dedeker: Yes, well, I think I've never been good at it either but I think part of that is, we do put a lot of assumptions and there's a particular narrative around friends with benefits and unfortunately, I think it's often quite a negative-- I don't want to say narrative, again, unnecessarily but I just think there's a lot of assumption around, if it's a friend with benefits, that's going to mean, yes, we hook up and have cool sex, but we're not going to be affectionate with each other, maybe it's going to be awkward, maybe one person is going to get feelings and the other person's not going to reciprocate and then it's going to be awkward and so yes, that definitely can happen with a lot of friends with benefits relationships.
It also doesn't have to be that way and-- I've many missions in life, one of my side missions in life is encouraging people to be courageous in rewriting some of these scripts. If you're listening to this podcast, you probably already have a seed of this in you to be a little subversive in your relationship choices, but it's things like, if you have a casual friends-with-benefits relationship, and you also want affection, and kindness to be a part of that, it can be a part of that. You can really explicitly lay out the things that you want in this particular connection, or if it's, I really want to have sex once a month and would rather just not have to text anybody, an additional person for a month and so I would love it if like just have minimal communication.
You can be granular and talking about the things that you want and expect, not everybody's going to go for it, but some people are really going to go for it. I think it's just all about-- you can spend some time thinking about how has this gone wrong in the past? Why have I not enjoyed creating a friends-with-benefits relationship before and you do have a certain amount of power in being able to change the shape of that, or at least communicate to people how you want the shape of this relationship to look. That's our join the mission.
Jase: Right. I do think that that's something that kind of gets into this too, is that I think there is some-- and maybe I'm just speaking from my own experience with this, but struggles I've had with friends with benefits comes from a lot of guilt and shame I have about even wanting that, or that would be an acceptable thing for me to pursue or to want. I know that's something I've struggled with personally, and for me, something that's really helped with that is when it's been able to grow out of a friendship with someone who I would say was maybe more sex-positive than me.
They're able to help make it clear that this is okay and this is cool and this is something that they like to and this is good for everybody. That's easier said than done to find those kinds of relationships, this isn't something-- ironically, I think it's harder to find a good friend with benefits than it is to find someone to date as a potential serious partner just because I think-
Dedeker: That’s an interesting stance.
Jase: -it's easier to find because we're all trained to say, oh, you're looking to date? There's apps for that, those are acceptable to us, so you go on those, and you do that, or you ask someone out on a date and everyone-- even if we have different impressions of what this really means, everyone has a script for like, I asked you on a date, you said, yes, we're evaluating if we're interested in each other. It's going to look like somewhere in the neighborhood of dating in this way. Whereas with the friends with benefits, we just don't have the infrastructure and the encouragement and all of that, unless you have a really awesome sex-positive friend group, in which case maybe you have some more of that, but that is sometimes a little hard to find if you're not already in that.
I guess I don't say that to be discouraging, but more just to acknowledge like, we say that as if it's just, oh, just start asking people if they want these things the same as you do.
Emily: There's more challenging than that.
Jase: Right. It's a preliminary step of trying to connect with some community in your area that is more sex-positive. Maybe finding if there is a sex-positive group in your area through Meetup or something like that, that actually does in-person Meetups. Ideally, one that also does trainings and education as part of what they do. It's not just like cocktails and hookup kind of thing, but one that's like, we also do courses and classes and things like that, at least from my experience, tends to attract a crowd who is more serious about this. I think that also might be helpful just as a way to get yourself more familiar with people who can talk about sex in these type of relationship in a way that's, I guess more matter-of-fact and has a little bit less of that baggage that I think almost all of us come in with.
That could also be a helpful way just for yourself too, in addition to hopefully finding those types of relationships. All right. Now for our next question, this one is, is it normal/healthy to feel homesick for an existing partner when out on dates with new people? Then for some context, how do you work on that? I'm worried I don't allow myself to feel open to other connections. Maybe due to past relationships/abuse, maybe due to some unworked through compulsive monogamy. I've been in this world for about seven years. I think they mean the polyamory world, but I like the idea of I've been in this world for only seven years.
Emily: Whole World. Yes.
Jase: Still haven't had two concurrent fully-fledged romantic relationships. That's some context, but the main question is, is it normal or healthy to feel homesick for an existing partner when out on dates with new people?
Emily: Definitely normal and healthy. It's understandable.
Dedeker: Yes. 100%.
Emily: Yes. I guess immediately I would maybe look at overall is it something that you want? Is polyamory something that you're interested in? Just simply because those things are coming up and then perhaps scale back from there and look at the bigger picture. Look at the things that have led up to this. In terms of opening yourself to new people, to me often I would go into first dates just as I really enjoy getting to know new people, and I'm interested maybe not in inputting so much pressure on the date itself so that it's more like I'm just enjoying time with potentially a new friend and that may turn into a romantic or sexual relationship.
With that, I don't know. When I see friends I don't necessarily always have as much homesickness for my partner or for my friends, like the two of you that I've known forever. Just simply because I'm excited about getting to know this new person. I guess I would say if there's any way for you to take the pressure off a situation, but in terms of feeling homesick or sad about, "Oh, I'm not with the one I love at home." That's completely understandable. Totally normal.
Dedeker: Yes. I think you can look at that on the one hand. It can just be my God I really am so happy with my existing partner or partners. This doesn't necessarily have to be just, there's just one partner that I miss and feel homesick for. It can be multiple partners. First of all, I think that's something to celebrate. There's so many people who are just like so over their partners when they go out on a first date with somebody else, but something to celebrate.
That even when you're here presented with something new and tasting and shiny, you still miss and think about your other partners. That's great. Also on another side can be, it's less about, Oh, I just miss my partner so much and it can just be about I'm scared of the unknown and I'm scared of breaking a routine and I'm scared of going through the discomfort of taking a risk with someone new. Not to say that that's a problem. I think that's very normal, but I do know that sometimes our routine is comfortable, and going on a date can be uncomfortable sometimes.
Having to think about, Oh, I've got to open up to this person and I've got to try to evaluate who they are and I've got to talk about my sorted past and I've got to figure out how good they are at communication or whatever it is, that can feel like a whole pain in the ass compared to I could just be at home with my partner or partners just playing video games and having a good time. Yes, I think you can examine that, of what's really here. Is there some just fear of the unknown or fear of being vulnerable? I think also, this doesn't even necessarily have to reach that level of is polyamory for me or not.
It's just like, are you happy? Even though it's been seven years in this world and you haven't had to concurrent fully-fledged romantic relationships, that's okay. If you still feel happy and relatively peaceful and content, maybe that's how it's always going to be for the rest of your life and that would be okay. Personally, I would give you the polyamory seal of approval, but I'm not on the board of directors of confirming who gets to take the polyamory label or not, but in my own belief system, yes, you're still polyamorous, it doesn't matter. I think that's the most important thing at the end of the day.
Jase: Yes. I guess just the thing I wanted to add to this, like what Dedeker was just saying is that there's also the possibility that just you haven't connected with anyone or really been ready for that.
Emily: Sure.
Jase: That it might not have anything to do with just, Oh, I'm just so comfortable in this or don't really need any other partners, but it could also be maybe just the way you've been meeting them just doesn't work for you. To go back to the previous question, maybe there's something about connecting with a community that you can more organically form those relationships instead of the more prescribed first date type five. Then of course, on the other hand, there could be some stuff holding you back. There could be some codependency there, there could be some things just like, I don't know how to have an identity outside of my partner, which is totally normal and encouraged by our society, really.
Yes, be gentle with yourself though. It's not like, Oh, I'm doing it wrong or there's something wrong with me. It could be taking those steps of just giving yourself some more alone time first. Take the time you're spending on dates right now and be like, I'm going to do something by myself, not with my partner.
Emily: That's a good idea.
Jase: Ideally, with friends or something. I want to have my own identity and really get comfortable with that first, and then maybe see if I can use some of that time and energy toward dating and see if there's something there because that is-- It's just that type of codependency is so, so encouraged and praised in our western society, monogamy way of thinking about things, that whole soulmate idea just to be aware of that and to cut yourself some slack too. That you're not failing, but that there might be something there and that you could work on exploring that and seeing if you can escape some of that grip.
Emily: Before we go on to more questions from our Patrons, we are going to take a little bit of time to talk to you about some of our sponsors for this episode. These sponsors really help us to bring all of this information out there to you for free. It also helps us to pay the people who we work with who are so wonderful and we so appreciate. If you can take some time to listen, we would really appreciate it and check them out if there's anything that's interesting to you.
We're back already. This next one is really an interesting question. I'm very excited to hear what the two of you have to say. The question is, when, if ever do you break up on behalf of a miserable partner who has made it clear that they do not like some aspect of your relationship that is not changing and they've agreed to that. Assuming you personally are otherwise content in the relationship, perhaps aside from the processing of their discontent.
Jase: Okay. Let's start by just unpacking all the pieces of this. You're dating someone and there's something about your relationship that they don't like, but that they've agreed to date you anyway. This could be non-monogamy, it could be your availability. It could be another partner of yours. It could be, I don't know what, but-
Emily: Is using the word miserable really intense to me. I'm like, wow, is that your projection of what they're going through? Are they saying-
Dedeker: That the leveled at me also.
Emily: Well, sure, yes.
Dedeker: Things have some complicated emotions.
Emily: Absolutely. That's the thing. It's like, wait a minute, let's stop first and ask the question. If they said they're miserable, is this a fact or is it just your interpretation of what's going on? Dedeker, you talk a lot, and we've talked about this in our book about problems that are unsolvable, and that's simply just something that most if not all relationships go through, there are just going to be unsolvable problems. I think the question is whether or not those unsolvable problems become such an issue that it's going to damage the relationship irreparably, or if it's something that you can work through and ultimately still stay together.
Dedeker: Yes. Again, when he say we don't have a ton of context about how this person knows their partner is miserable, I would want to drill down into was this a particular conversation? Is this something in their behavior? There's so many different ways that this question asker may be getting this message. Ultimately, though, I think it is tricky because it's like you are not the one who dictates whether or not your partner is miserable to the point where this is not a good relationship for them and I get it.
I feel like I've been on both sides of this where you can feel that way and I'm sure that the question asker probably just wants to be a compassionate ethical person. I'm willing to bet that if their partner seems like they're miserable, it probably causes a certain amount of guilt for this person and they don't want to be hurting their partner, and so yes, that is uncomfortable. Also just going to someone and saying, you're too miserable for this relationship, so I'm prescribing to you as your relationship doctor, you need to not be in this relationship so be gone with you.
Emily: No, that doesn't sit particularly well with me.
Dedeker: Yes. It just doesn't go over well. It's not a good foundation for having that type of conversation. I think for the question asker if you think it's best for the relationship to end. You feel like this is not really good for either of us, that's on you to express those things and make it about you. Don't make it about them. It's either you need to make some requests about the way you want to see the relationship change, or you need to communicate those things to your partner or you need to say like, "I need to take myself out of this," and it's not about, Oh, you're so miserable, so I need to take myself out and so if you were just less miserable, then I'd be here. It starts to get messy.
Jase: That's so hard because you really hit on it. It's that if we're just taking this at face value and say like, should you break up with someone because they're miserable, but they say they're okay being in the relationship, I would say, well, no, that's not trusting them to make their own decisions and that's-
Emily: This is an autonomous person.
Jase: Right. On the other hand, I do think that, because I've been in this situation too, when it's like, yes, it sucks to be in a relationship where you're constantly feeling bad because the person you're with is expressing how they're unhappy. I'm not even going to say miserable. Even just unhappy about something about you. Something about your relationship and that's part of you, that's part of what you're here for and able to do and that sucks. I think that breaking up with someone because you are miserable, and unhappy because of how upset they seem to be about your relationship, I think is super valid. That also sucks as a message to deliver because it does end up coming across like Dedeker said, I want to break up with you because you're so miserable and it sucks to be with you. That is a bummer even if it is the truth.
Emily: Well, at the end of the day the only person that you can change or who's emotions you are responsible for are your own I think, and if you find that this relationship is not working out because of whatever perception is happening or whatever truth is happening, and that's something that you simply don't want to be a part of anymore, then I think it is okay to say, okay, clearly something is not working in this relationship, we have discussed the things that are not going in the direction that we each want. Like, you are in this direction, I'm in this direction and I think it's okay to break up at that point, but not saying, Yes, you're miserable, so bye. I think that's a tough thing to hear and a tough thing to say and not okay.
Dedeker: Sorry that you're having to go through this question asker. I really wish that we-- can we encourage people to do those fun sleepless in Seattle-style sign-offs. I want someone to be able to address like, oh yes, sorry, partner of a miserable partner in Maryland.
Emily: Actually we were talking about.
Jase: That's a fun idea. We should start doing that.
Dedeker: Maybe when we start posting, making these posts, we can tell people to come up with fun-
Jase: Fun little sign-off for yourself.
Dedeker: - little sign-off. I like that.
Emily: Miserable in Maryland. I like that. Oh, that's sad but-
Jase: Sympathetically miserable in Cincinnati.
Emily: There you go.
Dedeker: I like that. Good. All right, next question. My partner recently began dating someone we have both been friends with for several months. I've really appreciated their friendship so far and would like to keep it going. However, I'm not usually open to kitchen table style polyamory and preferred to not interact with my metamours very often. How do I tackle maintaining a meaningful established friendship while respecting my own boundaries?
Jase: Well, okay. I have questions, which I know I will not get answers to, but I'm going to ask them anyway. When you say not open to kitchen table style polyamory, I'm like, why? What does that mean? I'm a little just questioning, putting this preference onto a label of a thing, but I do think there's interesting stuff here, of like, well, what is it about that that you tend to not like? Why is that rather than just--This is going to look like this thing that I say I don't do, and I don't think that's necessarily what the question askers is getting at, but that jumped out to me from the way the question was phrased.
Dedeker: I just wanted to jump in and just put some padding around Jase's question just to say that we affirm if you're not into kitchen table polyamory, that's totally okay.
Jase: Oh, sure.
Dedeker: I just didn't want Jase to come across as why? Why not?
Jase: No. It's not really a style of polyamory that I've done very much either. I'm not saying this is the way you should do it, or this is best at all. Most of my life tends to be more of a parallel polyamory style and sometimes we'll all hang out. It's not like we're hiding from each other but I'm also not like, I like having my space. I don't really want everyone all up living at my kitchen table all the time. That's fine. Thank you for clarifying that. That's not what I mean.
I do mean this is already your friend, and so if before it's like, well I just don't really want to add more people into my life in a more involved way than I already have. I don't really want to get super close with my metamours. I'm cool over here, but this already is your friend so I'm like, well then it can't be that problem unless it's because we're falling into this label of kitchen table is not a thing I do, this starts to look like that. That's a problem.
Again, I know I'm jumping on this and it's probably not where the question asker is coming from, but that did jump out to me from the question.
Then the second part of it there says, I prefer not to interact with my metamours very often. Again, going with the same thing. Again, is that because of the metamours of just like I don't really want to try to develop these new hangout friendships where our only thing in common is the fact that we're dating the same person because I get that, but again, this person you're already friends with? If it's that I feel weird and don't know how to navigate being with a partner while they're with someone else that they're also affectionate with, okay, then we have something to start with.
It's like, okay, if that's actually the issue and it very well might be that is something to navigate and hopefully, because this person's already a friend, you have some open communication that you could do. I know you've only been friends for a few months now, but to be able to talk about some of that, of like, Hey, I think it'd be cool for us all to hang out together. I'm still trying to figure out how to get comfortable with maybe you two being affectionate and also how much I can be affectionate with my partner.
I know that's usually where I'm more uncomfortable is knowing how affectionate I can be than how affectionate my metamours are. It's like, well I don't want to make someone feel weird. I don't want to make someone feel bad or feel like I'm being too possessive or something of this partner. Anyway, I do think those are conversations that if you can get a little bit clearer on which parts are challenging, can help have more productive conversations about those specifically.
Emily: I think it's totally fine to say like, Hey, I think you're an awesome person and an awesome friend, and I just prefer keeping our friendships separate from the relationship that the two of you were having. I think I would like to have the relationship that you and I have stay its own thing and not have to get in a situation where maybe we're talking about the challenges of that relationship or talking about what kind of person they are as a partner or something along those lines. I think it's okay to set those kind of boundaries if that is something that you want, but also potentially be open like Jase said to the possibility that more of a kitchen-tabled style isn't going to be that awful as challenging as you think it's going to be with somebody who's already established.
Dedeker: It's just occurring to me. I wonder if one of the concerns is, well, I like this person, they're my friend, so I'm okay with them being around in something that looks like kitchen table polyamory but if I'm okay with that, then do I have to be okay with all metamours from here on out into the future? Also being at my kitchen table. I don't have the context here but that's what just occurred to me and so I guess just to address that if that's the case. I don't know. I think that's okay. It could be like, Oh yes, this is a person who's already my friend, and so I'm okay with them being around and maybe us having also this separate like little metamour polycule dynamic but I'm not really open to that with strangers or people that I don't know. I think that's all right.
Jase: That's an interesting clarification to make. It's like, if I have some relationship with this person, I'm cool with it and if it's just randoms, it's like I'd just rather not spend my energy on that. That makes sense.
Emily: Sure.
Jase: I get that. Then the last part of this is just how do I tackle maintaining a meaningful established friendship while respecting my own boundaries? Question boundaries a little bit of like, which parts are really the boundaries? I'd say kitchen table polyamory, I don't do that. That's not-- sound really boundary. That's just a little bit amorphous and based on a label and stuff like that, but looking for yourself, is it that I'm really not comfortable seeing my partner be affectionate with anyone else, and that's just something I will remove myself from that situation, so I'm not going to hang out with you guys if you do that.
That's a good example of a boundary that you might have but so I would just question a little bit, what do you mean by boundaries? Then two is maintaining this meaningful established friendship is hang out with them on your own too. Be clear about I want to maintain this friendship and I don't always want to have to do that while we're together in this way, or, Hey, I'd love for us to all still be friends, could we do it and just not have anyone touch each other during that or something.
Just be clear and negotiate that and see what you can come up with and hopefully both your partner and your friend are friends with you and are willing to be like, yes, let's make this work. Let's find a way to do this so everyone feels comfortable. All right. Our last question for today is, I feel compersion when my nesting partner tells me about her sexual experiences with others past and present. In fact, it is sexually stimulating for me. I do not, however, feel compersion when it comes to her having emotional meaningful connections with others. Why is it easy for me to be okay with her sexual escapades but not her emotional connections with others?
Dedeker: I want to hear a quick poll of the other podcast hosts.
Oh, I'm curious to hear all y'all's experience with this. Not that it's a strict binary between sexual compersion or emotional compersion, but I'm curious about where you tend to land on this, what your past experiences have been?
Emily: I would say I probably fall in a similar realm. I don't know sex is fine too. I'm not sure exactly that I necessarily get turned on, although I definitely have hearing about the sexual escapades of others and participating in them in addition to and getting to watch. In terms of emotional, I think that cuts deeper in some ways, although I felt compersion for those times as well, but sometimes that gets a little bit more irky like squeaky. I don't know how I feel about this.
Dedeker: Irky speaking?
Emily: Yeah.
I'm trying to like onomatopoeia this somehow, its sound, like.
Dedeker: That noise that you just made the .
Emily: When I hear about emotional connections and I've definitely downplayed my own and probably had partners downplay their retellings of the emotional connections that they have with others just because that can be difficult.
Jase: Right. It's funny. I think for me I'm the opposite of Emily and of this question asker that, I think I'm more comfortable hearing about and feeling good about my partner having emotional connections and being like, Oh this is great and feels really rewarding, and the sexual stuff. I'm just like, cool, good for you. I don't really want to think about that or hear that.
Emily: Interesting.
Jase: As I'm thinking back, I'm like, that's not always true. I can think of exceptions to both of those but I would say if I tended to fall on one side, it would more often be that way.
Dedeker: Yes. I think I'm the same.
Jase: Oh, really?
Emily: Really?
Dedeker: The funny thing though I'm realizing that when I think about a partner or partners having sex with other people, sometimes that can turn me on, like the fantasy portion of it, where, of course, it's my own brain and I control everything, but sometimes that can be really hot, but then the reality is like, I don't know. No, I don't necessarily want to hear about it. This also gets complicated because, of course, if your partner is coming home and divulging all this private information about what this person's genitals look like, then it gets tricky.
Like well, is that person you slept with okay with you telling me those things? Maybe they are, I don't know, so I think that does complicate it a little bit. Then when I think about hearing about a partner's emotional developments or emotional connections, that depends on the context. I do think that if there's some insecurity there, either insecurity within myself or insecurity with the stability of the relationship, that can be more challenging to hear.
Emily: Sure.
Dedeker: If there's something emotional that I've been craving from my partner and then I feel like they're giving it to someone else, that can be really hard to hear. Then I've also had experiences where if I know that there's something a partner's really struggled with, like finding intimacy or finding acceptance or safety, and then they find that with somebody, then it's really easy for me to feel really joyful and happy for them. For me, it feels a little bit across the board, and this person is asking why? Why is it easy for me to be okay with these things?
Emily: I don't know.
Dedeker: Without being able to sit down and do a little inventory of your whole relationship history and psychology, it's hard to answer that specific question but that's why I thought maybe it'd be helpful if we shared just our own individual experiences because it varies a lot.
Jase: I think as another angle to look at what Dedeker was just talking about, where it's about, what I see my partner struggling with or that I'm jealous of or things like that. I think on the other side there could be also where do you feel confident. If it's like, well, I feel confident that sex with me is good but part of me is not so sure that emotionally being in a relationship with me is as good, this is most likely totally unfounded. Because we've all got our baggage and our insecurities and things like that, but I know that if you have more than insecurity in one area than the other, it's going to be harder to feel that compersion because there's more threat there.
It's more of this like, Oh, but if they're getting something good in this area then they won't want it from me anymore because I'm not good, or maybe I'm not good. I don't know if I'm good or not. However that shows up for you. I think that's definitely a factor that could be at play here too.
Emily: My partner once stated someone who they shared poetry and stuff and would send their favorite poems back and forth to each other, and my partner writes poetry sometimes and enjoyed doing that and that definitely made me feel like, I don't do that.
Dedeker: Oh, icky, squeaky.
Emily: It's fine yes, but that was icky squeaky at times.
Jase: Now, I get that.
Emily: Whereas, whatever go nuts in terms of sex.
That sounds fun, so I don't know, but that tracks though in terms of where the two of you would feel emotionally excited versus not that you two aren't out outrageously attracted people.
Jase: Oh goodness. Well, thank you, Emily. I was going to say though another piece to this is this could change over time in that relationship too and could be different in different relationships. You may experience at some point that in this relationship I have an easier time feeling compersion with them about sex, or maybe a specific type of sex. It's like I have a total easy time having compersion for them, having their like, BDSM scenes but a harder time if they're having this really, intimate, romantic kind of sex. Maybe with another partner, it's the opposite, or another partner I'm just not as into hearing about the sex they're having, could also vary based on the level of confidence, you have in that relationship and the level of comfort in that relationship. To go with Emily's example, if 8 years ago, Dedeker had started dating someone who had had all of the poems of Walt Whitman memorized or something. I would've been super threatened. She's getting not bothered right now. Was thinking about it. I would've been super threatened by that back then, and now after just a lot more years together-
Emily: After I have 20 million years, y'all like, yes whatever.
Jase: -I think I could have more compassion for that, and be like, well, that's cool. You have someone to do that with, and that's okay.
Dedeker: If I had dated Walt Whitman 8 years ago, because I think that's probably maybe one of the few people-
Emily: Who would know all of these poems.
Amazing.
Jase: Sure.
Dedeker: Well, good to hear from you. Sexually compulsive in South Carolina.
Jase: Okay, I see, and I see that's fun.
Dedeker: See if people don't include their own's monikers. I'm going to have to be back to you.
Emily: I love that.
Jase: That's great.
Emily: That's beautiful.
Jase: Well, thank you for your question, and we hope that was helpful getting just some thoughts about where that may be coming from and that that can encourage your own introspection about where that's coming from.