419 - Beyond Monogamy: Overcoming Hurdles and Strengthening Bonds Listener Q&A
Today’s Q&A…
The questions we’re weighing in on from our Patreon community this week cover a few different topics:
Being polyamorous and young, but having difficulty finding partners who don’t feel lost without the relationship escalator.
Potential partners mistaking “polyamorous” for “casual dating.”
How to manage a mono-poly relationship without making the monogamous person feel neglected or less important.
Balancing being codependent with being supportive.
Metamour relationships when there is no hinge partner anymore.
Coping with a metamour you don’t like.
Notifying a metamour of a past negative experience with a mutual partner.
The joys of being polyamorous.
If you’d like your question to be addressed during our next Q&A episode, consider joining our Patreon community to submit it!
Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory podcast, it's time for another Q and A episode compiled from questions from you, our beautiful, lovely listeners.
This week we are going to be discussing some questions having to do with challenges about being polyamorous in a monogamous world, and even if you want to be polyamorous, struggling with some of that monogamous programming.
Then we're also going to look at if it's possible to rekindle a friendship with a metamour after they're no longer seeing your mutual partner, as well as some of the joys of polyamory. We're going to cover the whole range of experiences today.
If you have a question that you would like discussed and answered on the show, you can become a Patreon@patreon.com/multiamory. Whenever we do one of these, we will post in those groups asking for contributions, for questions, and that's where we get these.
Dedeker: We have to give the disclaimer that, while we have spent a lot of time reading about and studying and educating ourselves on healthy relationship habits and good communication, we're not mind readers, we are not soothsayers, we are not magicians, we are not witches-
Emily: Doctors.
Dedeker: Not that you know of. We're not doctors. Our advice, thoughts, opinions is based solely on the limited information that we have from these questions. As always, take it with a grain of salt.
Everybody's situation is unique, We encourage you, the listener, to use your own judgment, seek professional help if needed,
Again, ultimately, you and the people asking these questions are the only true experts on their own lives and feelings. Everybody's decisions are their own. With that said, let's dive in and get started.
Emily: I really like getting these questions from our Patreon listeners because some themes get sprinkled about, depending on the week or the month that we ask, which is really fascinating.
I saw two very big themes this month. The first Jase was talking about in the opening, and that is the challenges of being polyamorous in a monogamous world.
Also, dealing with some of the reprogramming or deprogramming of those monogamous values that maybe you have initially or that other people have, and trying to figure out how to be polyamorous even when it's so difficult because so many of those values come up in other ways.
Then the second part of the episode is going to be about metamours, and some of the challenges that may come with having metamours with-- do you like your metamour or not? Things along those lines.
All right, I guess I'll start. Being a queer young person in NYC, a lot of people in my friend groups and dating scene are starting to open up to the idea of polyamory. This is potentially a great thing, but I have found that a lot of these people are usually pretty inexperienced with poly and are trying it out because a lot of their peers are as well.
This has happened to me several times where someone who knows I am poly and is interested in me ends up either changing their mind during the relationship and try to get me to agree to be monogamous.
Or quickly into dating, we will both realize they hadn't really considered the long-term logistics of what having a polyfamily/life structure looks like, especially since I feel a lot of people are monogamous because we don't have many examples in society of what it looks like to be happy and polyamorous in the long term.
People freak out because they feel lost without the relationship escalator timeline planning out their future. I've gotten better about not engaging with people who don't seem to be a good match for me this way, but sometimes you really don't see it coming, or even when you do, it's just so disappointing.
I bet it is. Also, this is interesting because this feels like it's a person who is younger than our generation. Being young and polyamorous in New York City, try to put yourself in that mindset.
Dedeker: I think it's interesting that they highlight the fact that I do think, in a lot of queer scenes, sometimes there can be this pressure to be non-monogamous.
Statistics show us that people who identify as queer are generally more likely to also identify as non-monogamous or to have experience with non-monogamy.
I do think that if you're in a group of friends in a particular scene in a particular community, and if everyone around you is identifying as both queer and poly or queer and non-monogamous, that it's really hard to resist that pressure.
I think especially with something like non-monogamy, where there can be so many people really singing its praises and trying to logic you out of monogamy, as it were, or trying to be like, it just makes more sense. Especially for someone who's bi, it totally makes extra sense in that situation.
I can see how that can create a dynamic where there's a lot of people who maybe at heart really would be happier being monogamous, but feel like I need to at least try this out, which I can respect.
I'm all about people at least being willing to experiment and try things on and then figuring things out from there, but I think it does make this particularly challenging.
Jase: The one that stuck out to me was this thing about feeling lost without the relationship escalator timeline planning out their future.
That isn't something I thought of quite in those terms, but it makes a lot of sense. I've seen versions of that. I just never quite put it exactly that way.
Essentially, with the relationship escalator, you have this sense of our relationship is getting more serious, or it's going well if we're getting to these next steps that keep going up the escalator, and here's not really a way to go back down it. That's the whole idea.
That concept of feeling lost is that maybe I'm happy in this relationship and I am enjoying it. How do I know that it's going well if I don't have this thing to point at and be like, "Oh, yes, we took that next step." We moved in together.
Or, "Oh, yes, we took that next step. We started dating exclusively," even, as an example. Or whatever it is. The way I've heard this put before is that some people who were being non-monogamous for the first time struggled with how do I express romantic feelings to my partner without falling into these tropes of, oh, it's because I don't want to be with anyone. I only have eyes for you or you complete me.
Or these very monogamy-centric ideas of how we express love and express our affection for our partner. It's interesting to look at it this way, too, of, well, if I don't have these landmarks to gauge how it's going or to look forward to or to plan for, then what? How do I know this is going well?
I know that sounds weird to say it out loud like that, but I can understand how you would feel that way.
Emily: It's interesting. I don't want to Patreonize here. I feel like when I was a younger person, I was a little bit more attached to the idea of having those relationship escalator timelines and moments in my relationships.
Especially when I was really dealing in monogamous terms and thinking about, well, my relationship has to reach a certain point and go through a certain set of moments and ebbs and flows, and then that will equal success.
I think as I've grown and gotten older, I've found that relationship success really changes and can look a lot of different ways. I do wonder if just perhaps dating a little bit older than just like the Gen Z experience that this person sounds like they're going through-
Dedeker: The Gen Z experience.
Emily: The Gen Z experience, yes. Then maybe people who've gone through relationships, even maybe a divorce or a big breakup or their lives not ending up in that same trajectory that they imagined, maybe they would be a little bit more open to, yes, I can do whatever I want in this relationship. It doesn't have to look a really specific way.
Jase: Something to consider besides just the option of dating people that are in a slightly different age range is trying to go to events and find community. Whether that's an online community like our Patreon group is nice for that.
We have a really broad range of ages. We have people that are very much Gen Z, and we also have people who are Boomers. It could be an online community, like our Patreon group.
I actually really value that, getting to have perspectives from people that are younger than me, and also people who are significantly older than me just to get those role models. They mention that in the question of not having those role models.
I would say, even better, is if you could get some of that community in person. I think the importance of this is finding a community that's not just about finding people to date.
Also finding people to talk about, learn about their relationships and get a broader perspective on things. Without that, yes, it is really hard to know what to do or what this could look like in your life.
Dedeker: To clarify or piggyback off of what Emily was saying, not just about go find an older person to date, but find role models or mentorship or friendship or whatever. It doesn't have to be just about dating.
I want bring in a different angle on this, which is that, I think a lot of people in the non-monogamous community, and I think especially a lot of us when we are young and idealistic can get really wrapped up in this idea of screw the relationship escalator.
We should all just be enlightened enough to be totally okay with it being the relationship Wild West, as it were. We just float in space and we don't have any markers of security or attachment or things like that. We just figure it as we go along.
Which personally, I don't think it's very realistic as far as how relationships go. I do think that if you are dating someone who is feeling a little freaked out by there not being a sense of an escalator or there not being a sense of a next milestone, instead of that being a deciding point where you decide, oh, toss this person in the garbage. They can't handle this whole non-monogamy thing.
I think that's an opportunity for further questioning and discussion about, "What does help both of us feel safe and secure in relationship? What does the future look like for the two of us?
What are some things that we might like that's maybe not sitting down and planning out the next five years but thinking about what are we both open to as far as what could be on the table in this relationship in the future?"
Because again, I just don't think it's realistic to tell someone, "I'm going to give you zero markers of security and attachment other than my glorious presence and then you just have to deal with it."
Jase: Sure.
Dedeker: I think that's maybe something I wish I had known when I was a little bit younger when in retrospect I look back and see partners who would turn to me for wanting that security or sense of safety or reassurance.
What I gave back to them was a lot of dogma and hand-waving, of just like whatever, relationship escalator, it's okay. The theory is great. Talking about these things in the abstract is great, and also, when the rubber meets the road, yes, people want a sense of reassurance.
I think if you dive down underneath, for instance, it's like, oh, so you say that you really want to cohabit with somebody someday? Let's talk about what are the parts of that sound exciting to you.
Do you envision, I want someone that I can cuddle with every night? Or it's, I want someone who I can just talk about my day-to-day with? Or is it about, I want to buy property with someone?
I think getting down into the nitty-gritty of what's actually there, I think can actually make these milestones more expansive and accessible rather than feeling like, "Oh, my God, my partner is trying to force me onto this escalator." Does that make sense to the two of you?
Emily: Yes. That's really fascinating because it's also telling the person here maybe slow the brakes on, "We have to end this relationship immediately." Instead say, "Hey, what is it that we're looking for here? Can we find some commonality in that or not?"
Jase: The challenge that the question asker seems to be facing, though, is that thing of, on the one hand, I give everyone a chance and I get disappointed a lot by people saying, "Yes, this is great for me." Then they want me to be monogamous, and that's not something that I want.
Or they freak out and be like, I can't do this anymore. This is too different. I don't feel secure enough in this.
On the other hand, that idea of I want to try to pre-filter everyone so that I don't have these challenges and then you can end up on the other side of well then you've missed out on these opportunities where maybe this could have worked.
That is a hard balance to strike. I can relate to it. I think that that will always be there. You could say that that's true of any kind of relationship too because each person is looking for something a little bit different from another person.
There's parts of that that can be flexible and might change. There's parts of that where, "No, it's just not going to work if you want this different thing than what I want." There's lots of different areas where that can show up.
Anything from marriage and kids, even if you're monogamous, that that might change how you think about things or cohabiting. Or just the kind of life you want to live. Whether that's traveling a lot or it's settling down, whether it's living in a big city or living in a suburb.
There's a lot of differences in how that can look. I think it's constantly this balance of looking for what might be compatible, what could work, how can we make this work with each other, but realizing that you're not going to find some bulletproof way of filtering beforehand.
That dating just inherently has that risk of you're going to get disappointed but also has the risk of being delighted, I guess you could say.
Emily: Let's move on to the next question, which is related to this previous question but in not a NYC area. In a much more potentially conservative area.
Here's the question. "I realized I'm poly about six months ago and have since started trying to date again. My biggest stick-up so far is the amount of monogamous people who see polyamorous on my dating app profiles and automatically equate that with casual dating.
I'm not opposed to casual dating, but I'm looking for a serious partner right now. Part of the issue is living in a conservative state with a pretty small poly dating pool, I think.
I find myself having to explain it to so many dating prospects and when they realize it's not just about casual sex, they disappear. Is this just something that comes with the territory or should I only be trying to date other poly people?"
Dedeker: The age-old question of, should I only be trying to date other non-monogamous people? My personal answer to that, from my own personal life, it changes probably every other year or so, I would say.
Emily: You've talked so much over the years about the poly-apprenticeship. We discussed that a lot very early on in the show.
I think that that's something that you have to know is potentially going to come with the territory. Is if you meet a new person and they don't really know much about non-monogamy but are willing to try it in order to date you, you may have to do some apprenticeship in terms of a young polyamorous Padawan, as it were.
Dedeker: I also get a little spooked out by that dynamic as well, where it's so hard to avoid. Of course, if you have more experience or are more well-read on the subject, yes, of course, you're going to come to any conversation maybe a little bit more armed with stuff to talk about or angles to consider.
You also don't want to perpetuate a power dynamic where you're the one who draws up the lines of what counts as good non-monogamy or not and they're the one just looking to you for that.
Anyway, to get back to the asker's question, I think there's a couple of options here. I do think there is an option to get more granular in the dating app as far as what you put on your profile.
You could put on there that you're polyamorous, and this is what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a partner or partners who can provide X, Y, Z. Or I want to provide to a partner X, Y, Z. You can take that approach of trying to get more granular there.
Of course, people are always going to skip over reading what's in your profile. You're still going to have to have the conversation. That's an option. Or you can try to take the approach of, all right, I'm going to try to date people who either already identify as non-monogamous or polyamorous or whatever.
Again, it's going to limit your dating pool, which isn't always the worst thing necessarily. That is a little bit of the cost that you take on with that particular approach.
Jase: Yes, one thing to consider, if you notice that a particular term like polyamorous being the first thing on your dating profile, people are just not interpreting that correctly or they're thinking it means something else, is to look at what are other terms that you could use instead?
Just see, do I notice a difference? Do I notice more people getting it? For example, something like consensually non-monogamous or ethically non-monogamous, whichever one you like better. Just try substituting that and see if you notice a difference.
See if those words make people think, "Huh, okay, that's something different." Maybe there's something in the media that made them associate polyamory with that you just want casual dating.
There's been a lot more talk about polyamory in general in the media. It's been a real mix of pretty accurate coverage and a lot of just very sensational coverage in all sorts of ways.
Maybe trying some different language could help. I do like what Dedeker mentioned about also adding in some specifics about what it is you are looking for.
Something that I would say to be aware of, though, is to, as much as possible, avoid going to the negative of what you don't want and try to stick toward what you do want. That's not to say you can never say, "I'm not looking for this. Please don't message me if that's what you want."
Sure, there's a place for that. If possible, if you can find a way to say that in a, "This is what I do want," or "I'm only looking for this," I think that will just get you better results.
Because then you're going to jump out to the people that are looking for that. Rather than jumping out as saying no to the people that don't, if that makes sense, kind of whose attention are you going to get?
Focusing on what you do want, I think makes more sense. Also, if you're open to a variety of things, try not to be too specific and then pigeonhole yourself of like, I'm only looking for someone who wants to get married within the year and the year is running out now.
That might be more challenging than just saying, "I'm looking for something more serious. It doesn't have to start that way, but I want it to get there." Something like that could be something to try and see if you notice different responses there.
Also, try different dating apps. There's a bunch of them out there. I have found, at different years, I have more success in terms of who I meet on different ones.
Emily: Can you name some that you've had great success on? Obviously, OkCupid.
Jase: Well, sure. I had great success on OkCupid in the past. I've also had times where I've gone on it and it's just felt not great. I haven't felt like I'm making good matches on there.
Then times when I've gotten back on it, and it has felt good again. I think it depends on who they're marketing to at the moment. Maybe what's in vogue in the city where I am at that time.
Thinking about things like OkCupid or Feeld or Tinder or Bumble or all these different options of just experiment with the different ones. You might find, oh, you know what? This one doesn't have as many people on it, but I'm getting better-quality matches.
Or this one, I don't like their interface, but it does seem to have better people on it. Or this one is a pleasure to use, but it's only people who want to hook up, and that's not what I want.
Experimenting with those different things as well as different profiles, and treat it a little bit like science. It takes some of the pressure off of, I've got to get it right, but let's try some things and see what happens here.
Emily: I was going to say, even though it's great to know exactly what it is that you're looking for and try to find someone who aligns with that as well, that there's always the potential that a casual relationship could, a], turn into something more or still be a long-term relationship in a variety of ways in your life.
I've had people that may come through once in a while in my life. I only see them every year or maybe every six months, but those are really important relationships still in my life. That's great to be able to come back to from time to time.
I do think that, although it sounds like you're looking for something more than just casual, it's nice to also view those casual relationships as maybe something that could continue on throughout the course of your life.
Jase: Let's go on to our next question here. This one is, how do you manage a mono-poly relationship without making the monogamous person feel less important? My soon-to-be husband is monogamous, but I've been poly for seven years. In those seven years, I've been with my boyfriend who is also poly.
It sounds like both of these are somewhat long-term relationships. One is monogamous and one is polyamorous.
Dedeker: This is all the information we got for this question. I'm just going to go out on a limb and assume this means that the mono-poly structure is working.
I think sometimes we have people who reach out to us asking about mono-poly relationships, where it's like we've been doing this for three months, and it's really clear the monogamous person isn't happy with this. How do we make this better?
I'm just going to assume, based on how this question is structured, that the fact that your partner is monogamous and you're polyamorous, that's not an inherent issue. That's working for everyone involved.
From that basis, that's where I would go from. I mean, to be honest though from that basis, when the question is, how do I make the monogamous person feel less important? I think why are you asking us? Have you asked them?
Emily: Or without making them feel less important.
Dedeker: Right. What helps to make them feel important? Or are there things that have gone on in the relationship that make them feel less important? Maybe that's silly to ask. I'm like, start at the front door.
Emily: Immediately this question made me think about what happens in NRE relationships, even when you are polyamorous with another person.
Maybe you've been with them for a long period of time, maybe you live with that person. Then someone new comes into your life and you're super excited. You put a lot of emotional energy towards making that person, that new person feel special and wanted. You're super excited about them.
I do think that if you have potentially a revolving door of new partners coming in, that yes, monogamous person may from time to time feel like, "I'm just the one here that is always around and maybe I feel a little bit less appreciated from time to time."
That's something to just think about in general regardless of what type of relationship structure you're in, is that it's always super important to take a look at that. If you're the one who is getting to go on a lot of new dates and meet a lot of new people, just don't forget about those that are already in your life.
In terms of having a great relationship that makes that person feel special, try to do those novel experiences. Try to help that person feel as though they're really loved and appreciated by bringing them a gift or utilizing their love language in a new and special way. Something along those lines.
Dedeker: I think a lot of it is you have to be really intentional, I think.
Emily: Absolutely.
Dedeker: It can be so easy if you're in NRE to just, I don't know, let your mind and heart just fare you away on a pink-colored cloud into the starry night. That's all you can think about.
I do think that there's a certain amount of making sure that you're acting in a way where you can let your head be in the clouds but your feet still on the ground is the phrase that I like to use.
Making sure that you, first of all, are clear about how it is you as a person want to be showing up in all your relationships, not just the one that you're particularly excited about at that moment.
Making sure that you're aware of how you want other people and your partner, especially your current monogamous partner, to think and feel about you. I think sometimes putting yourself in their shoes can be really helpful.
Jase: I think just in general, I know Dedeker was being cheeky when she said it earlier, but check in with that partner about what makes them feel special.
When you think about this question, if you're polyamorous, you have multiple partners, and your monogamous partner is one of those, what makes them special in your life doesn't necessarily have to be different from the way that you make any of your partners feel special.
Assuming that their choice to be monogamous is their choice, and that's just what they prefer to do. I think sometimes we can project on that of, oh, if they're not also dating other people, maybe they're lonely or they're not happy with that because I think I wouldn't be happy with that.
They actually might love it that way. They get more of their own time. Or just more independence. Or it's just simpler, and that's not something they want to deal with right now in their life.
I do think checking in with them is important. Not only to get a sense of what makes them feel special but also to get some of that reassurance that just because you might want something or think you would feel some way in their shoes, doesn't necessarily mean they feel that way.
As a silly different example, I have a friend of mine who anytime I invite her to something, to a gathering of my other friends, I always put in this caveat of, it's okay. If you ever want to leave, just let me know and we will leave. You don't have to hang around with people you don't know or whatever.
She always has to tell me, "No, I'm fine. I like people. You're the introverted one. I'm an extra. I will be fine. Sure. Thank you. I'll let you know, but you don't need to worry so much about me." It's me projecting my own fears or worries that I think I would feel in her situation onto her.
Emily: That's a really good point.
Jase: I think that's something else to keep in mind with your monogamous partner.
Dedeker: All right. With that, let's move onto this next question. How do you balance being co-dependent versus being supportive, especially in a way that doesn't make your partner feel abandoned or unloved?
I'm trying to transition out of the co-dependent tendencies of monogamy. So often, I feel pulled down by their anxiety-- I'm assuming "their" is their partner-- their anxieties and worries when I share none of them.
I want to be there to support them, but I need to be able to do so without letting it pull down the rest of my life. Doubly so where it bleeds into my interactions with other partners because it's totally unfair to them.
Jase: I think this one's true in a lot of areas of our lives of how do we support people without taking on all of their stuff?
I think that we can sometimes feel that by taking on someone else's fears and anxieties and worries that we're helping them in some way, but we're not. That's not actually doing anything to help them.
I say that because I'm one of those people who tends to feel like, oh, if I just take it on, I'm helping them somehow. I've had to teach myself that's not the case. Getting too affected by their emotions isn't being a better friend, isn't being a better partner.
You're just wearing yourself out more and making yourself actually less able to support them and take care of them.
Emily: I think utilizing some of our tools like the triforce and radar are really great in these scenarios. The triforce, so you can ask specifically what it is that that person needs in the moment from you. Then that allows you to maybe, to a degree, compartmentalize it and allow yourself to give what they want and need most.
Not more. Not too much more. Not in abundance that makes it really hard for you to be able to function in other areas of your life.
In a radar scenario, that's a compartmentalized moment for you to discuss challenges that may be ongoing or happening in other areas of your life or their life, and really be able to sit and take that time to do it and then put it on hold for the rest of the time as well.
I think that's challenging, but it's great to be able to have those safe spaces and containers.
Dedeker: I want to zero in on the "codependent tendencies of monogamy." This is something that I find myself speaking about a lot with my clients actually.
Where if we think about this on a spectrum, where I do think traditional monogamy encourages us in this more codependent direction. Where the ultimate ideal state is we become a unit. Two people become a unit. We become a hive mind. It's literally biblical. Two become one flesh.
We're one heart split between two bodies or what have you. If we frame that as one end of the extreme. Then if we go to the full opposite end, we get extreme independence, extreme emphasis on the individual.
I do see some non-monogamous and relationship anarchy people going in this direction of, no, we're all just floating atoms. We're not connected to each other. My shit is my shit. Your shit is your shit.
If I did something that made you uncomfortable, that's on you to deal with it. There's no impact that my actions have on you or whatever.
Often I've called this emotional or relationship libertarianism. We're completely extricating ourselves from any sense that I have an impact on the other person and going into this extreme independence of identity and self and all those things.
Then there's this middle path. There's many, many different flavors of this in between, where I think in relationship, we don't necessarily want to go full hive mind. We don't want to go full on just floating atoms but I do think there's something about, we're on the same team in relationship.
To me, I think that lives in that realm of healthy interdependence where, of course, we want to support the people that we love. Of course, we want them to support us. Of course, we're going to make decisions and take actions that not only benefit just ourselves but also the people around us that we love.
We're also not so wrapped up in it that we subsume ourselves, we subsume our own desires, our own needs, our own mental state for the sake of the other person.
I'm sure that all sounds well and good and it's a lot easier said than done. I think that's what comes to mind for me here, is finding that middle path of--
Again, ideally, in the spirit of being on the same team, this is something you and your partner can collaborate on. There's also an active meta-conversation around the best ways that the two of you can support each other when you're having a hard time while also having your own desires, your own needs, other relationships that you need to show up for. Things like that.
Jase: Something to think about as a practical way to apply some of that, and this is just based on the experience of myself and several of my friends where I've seen this happen, is in terms of internalizing that stress on yourself beyond just being supportive of that partner, that, I've seen, tends to come from getting too attached to their outcomes and their decisions.
It's one thing to be supportive, either in a triforce two way of just, "Gosh, yes, that does sound tough, or yes, you can do it, or I'll share your celebrations with you." Or even a T3 wanting advice where you're actually giving them some suggestions, some options, some things to think about.
When you do that, but then also hold onto this-- and I need to make sure they do the right thing or I need to make sure that this works out right-- gets one into this area of a certain amount of codependence that I think monogamy teaches us.
Where it's like, my partner's success in their choices reflects on me. I need to be up in that business maybe in a way that's not healthy. That's maybe an inverse form of codependence or something like a controllingness.
Even if it comes from a good place. If I want to help this person, I want them to be doing better in their life, it can feel like this urge to control and really be attached to their outcomes instead of letting them make their own choices and also live their own life.
That's easier said than done, but hopefully, that at least gives you something to look at. Of, is there a piece of that? Is there something where I'm getting a little bit attached to theirs?
I know this still happens to me with friends or whoever. If I'm too attached to wanting them to get a certain outcome, I carry a lot more of that stress with me in the rest of my life than I'm just there supporting them. Maybe I'll think about it and, "Oh, I hope they're doing well." It's not that same like, "Oh gosh, I'm all torn up over how stressed I am about this situation in their life."
Emily: Yes, that's why I think our framework of the triforce is so awesome and important. It can stop that feeling of, I have to fix something immediately and that's the only way that my partner is going to get any value out of this conversation that they're having with me when they're venting if I try to fix the situation and make it better.
Instead of going there right away, just ask, just figure out what it is that they really need in that moment. A lot of times, it may just be love and support. Not, "I've got to fix this thing. I have to make it better for them immediately."
That's taking on your own emotional that isn't always necessary, and often, is just going to make the whole situation worse for you.
Jase: We're going to go on now to talk about some questions having to do with metamours. First, we're going to take a quick break to talk about how you can support this show.
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It does directly support our show because they see that you came with our promo codes, and then that helps us keep this show going and available to everybody out there for free.
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Emily: We're back. Now we are moving on to meta more challenges. How do you handle your meta de-escalating with your partner? She and I get along great, but ever since she decided to de-escalate with our mutual partner, I don't hear from her at all anymore.
I feel like I've lost a friend. I can't help but feel like a part of it is my fault, even though nobody has explicitly said anything like that to me. That does suck.
Dedeker: It's hard. I've been in that situation. Well, I've been in that situation where I've had metamours. Maybe they weren't necessarily a super close friend, but it was still sad to know, "Oh, now that they've broken up with this partner or my partner has broken up with them or whatever it may be, it's just sad to know by default I'm included in not being--
Emily: The breakup.
Dedeker: Yes. Included in the breakup, which is a little bit of a bummer. I don't know. The approach I've always taken is just accepting that that's their choice. It's a little bit easier, again, when it's more of an acquaintance situation where maybe it's easier to not take it quite so personally, but it is a little bit sad.
Jase: Yes. It's tough, depending on how messy that breakup was for them. If it was a de-escalation, but they're still civil with each other, you could entertain the idea of reaching out and seeing.
The part where the question asker says, "I can't help but feel like part of it is my fault, even though no one has said that." I would interpret that to more be the question asker has pondered, "Is there something I could do about this that I'm not doing?"
It's possible there's not. It's possible that there's no way you could try to keep that relationship going without just making stuff weird with your partner. Or maybe that metamour is just feels too uncomfortable about it and doesn't want to, but it is something that you could consider reaching out about.
I think that the closest mainstream world analogous thing to this would be a co-worker who gets fired or just takes a job somewhere else, It is that, well, I don't see them anymore. This friendship time that we used to get for free, we don't get anymore.
It's that, do I still reach out? Do we stay a little in touch? Do I try to stay very in touch or is it okay to maybe just occasionally reach out and evaluate how that relationship is? I don't know. I think it's worth acknowledging that that doesn't have to mean it's gone away completely.
It also doesn't mean that you're failing if you're not putting in that extra effort you didn't used to have to put in to maintain that relationship.
Emily: This is tangentially related. My partner and I were at a gaming conference once. We saw across the room a person that he had formally lived with that was the girlfriend of someone who he had also lived with.
They all lived together in this big house and then the girlfriend and his friend had broken up. We tried to go over and say hi to her and she basically just ignored us.
Dedeker: Oh, man.
Emily: That was really interesting and hard and like, "Whoa, what's up there?" She reached out after the fact and said, "Hey, I apologize, but I really just didn't even want to think about my ex in that moment in any way.
You were not hugely a part of that, but it reminded me of my experience with that person, and so soon after the fact. I just didn't even want to go there."
That was telling for me because I realized even though you may feel, "Hey, I had nothing to do with this," it may just be challenging for that person for a period of time to even be around you. Just give it a minute.
I think that's really okay. Even if it is six months or even a year. If you did really get along with that person, I'd like to think that you could go back to them eventually and just be like, "Hey, how are you? I've thought about you a lot over this period of time.
I know that that might have been really challenging. I just wanted you to know that I have always continued to think of you fondly. I'd love to maybe get coffee sometime, maybe see you again in some way."
Even just starting from that place that's really a hands-off approach, but just gently making your way over to them in some small fashion, maybe that would soften the blow a bit for them and allow them to want to come back into your life.
Dedeker: I find myself wondering also that this seems like a situation where it could be very easy for this other person to not be reaching out because they think, "Oh, what if I make it weird?"
Emily: That's true.
Dedeker: Or what if they don't want to hear from you? Or what if they were only friends with me because we had a mutual partner?
I think that for the question asker, if this is something that remains on your heart and on your mind, I think the risk is low if you do want to reach out to this person just to simply express that maybe you still want to be friends, but it's also okay that if they need to take time or if they're not interested in that and just wishing them well.
I don't know. I think it's okay to at least just-- why not communicate? Just to clarify that this is where your heart is, but also to make sure that you're not enacting any sense of pressure or coercion. That you're just compassionate and empathetic and understanding.
If that person is open to it, great, you can continue your relationship. If they're not, then that's fine. That's their choice. I think a combination of being clear in your communication and being open to that taking time, I think is the approach that I would take.
Jase: Let's go on to this next one here, which is a short question. Other than going parallel, how do you cope with a metamour you dislike? Basically, other than just not interacting with them that much.
I date my partner, they date that partner, but we don't all hang out together. What else can you do to cope with a metamour that you don't like? I think we've all had this situation at different times in our lives.
Dedeker: I want to zoom out and just ask. Again, if we're not talking about going parallel, not talking about cutting this person out of your life completely, not choosing to pretend like they're dead or invisible or things like that, how do we in general deal with people that we dislike, that we have to be close to?
Whether it's, I have to go to work with this coworker, I have to hang out with my mom's friend, I have this family member, I have my boyfriend's roommate. Or whatever it is. We have to deal with people that we dislike all the time. How do we deal with those situations?
Emily: Be cordial and respectful, but you don't necessarily have to hang out with them, clearly. You are potentially going to be in situations where you are literally in the same room with them, with your partner. I think of a couple of times where all of us were at parties with an ex's other partner that I wasn't particularly--
Dedeker: None of us liked them. Just say it. She annoyed the crap out of all of us. In small ways.
Emily: Yes. We just said hi. It was a very, very small acquaintance level of communication, I feel like. It was almost no communication. If something occurred that was a little, "Ugh, I don't really appreciate what you just said to me there." You just deal with it and move on. Don't take it so personally. Even though I know that might be challenging.
Jase: It does make me think of that idea of a coworker that just really gets under your skin. Or even one that you feel like is a little bit actively antagonistic to you. I feel like that can happen with coworkers as well.
Emily: That can happen too
Jase: I think using that as a benchmark is helpful. On the one hand, there's only so much you can do. Just in terms of when you're around them, do your best to just not engage.
Go in with a sense of, "Okay, whatever. They're going to do their thing. I'm not going to let it get under my skin." That's easier said than done sometimes.
Then the other is, do what you can to distance yourself from those situations or from that person. In a polite way. Don't let them make it so you can't ever go to anything or go to any work events or whatever it is. In this case, events with your partner.
Don't let them chase you away from all of that. At the same time, maybe you choose not to have brunch that Saturday with both of them or something, just because it's not worth it. That's a decision you'll have to continue to make.
Dedeker: I'm going to make an argument for the opposite approach. Not that I--
Emily: Becoming their best friend.
Dedeker: No. Just for the sake of making the argument, I think that what Jase has said and what Emily has said, I think those are both 100% valid approaches.
Just for the sake of rounding it all out, I want to make the opposite argument, which is, I always think about when I first read the Ethical Slut, that something that stood out to me was, when they were talking about metamour relationships, they said, "Yes, you don't have to be best friends with your metamour.
You don't have to be a lover with your metamour, but we do encourage you to make an effort to, they called it "falling like" with your metamour as opposed to falling in love with your metamour."
I think about a couple of different backgrounds and a couple of different hats that I wear/ have worn in my life.
One of them being the hat of being a relationship coach. I've done a lot of therapy trainings.
There's been this recurring theme about, if you're working with someone and you cannot find anything that you like about them, you shouldn't be working with them. You're not going to be helpful to them if you don't respect them, if they get on your nerves, if they're annoying to you. You have to find something.
I think for myself, having worked with hundreds of clients at this point, not all of whom I like right out the gate, I'm so sorry to tell you, plenty of people bother me. Whether it's their mannerisms, whether it's the way they talk about things, whether it's-- I just straight up disagree with a viewpoint that they have on something or disagree with where they're on the political spectrum.
I feel like I've had to learn to try to build that muscle of finding the things to like, and sometimes that takes time. Sometimes that goes beyond just the first impression with somebody.
I just want to make the case for the reason you dislike someone could just be they made a bad first impression the first five times you hung out with them. Maybe it takes a little bit more actual one-on-one time actually getting to know them before you find the things that you like.
It doesn't mean you're going to become best friends. It doesn't mean you're going to fall in love with them. Maybe it makes it a little bit easier to be in shared spaces with them.
Then the other thing I was going to talk about was, also pulling on my background, and we all share this background of being in performance and being actors. Where sometimes you're in a scene with someone and you've got to pretend to be in love with them and you don't like them.
Maybe you're not even attracted to them. For myself, in order for that to be realistic and sustainable is you have to find something.
Emily: Wasn't that an Ivana Chubbuck thing, Jase?
Jase: All the acting teachers have things like that-
Dedeker: All the acting teachers.
Jase: -but you find something you like about them.
Dedeker: Ivana Chubbuck's not the first person to realize, huh, sometimes people in scenes don't actually like each other, but they need to pretend to like each other. I'm sorry, Ivana Chubbuck. You're great but you're not revolutionary. Anyway, to get back to this, I know she listens to the podcast.
Jase: Also maybe not that great. Yes. Ivana Chubbuck, if you're listening, reach out and we should talk. I've got some issues actually that I've been carrying with me.
Emily: Whoa.
Jase: Since the years I spent in your school. Let's talk.
Emily: There you go.
Dedeker: Anyway, to bring it back, but that's part of it. Is you have got to find something to like. Where I think that becomes relevant is even if it's like, I've got to get through this birthday party. I never hang out with this metamour because we don't really get along, we don't have a lot of points in common.
We don't have a lot of shared interests, but I have got to get through this birthday party. I'm going to find something to like about you for the next two hours.
Or I'm going to just choose to play with you and have fun with you, even though I know we're not necessarily going to have a super deep relationship outside of this. I would make the argument for taking that approach and just seeing what happens.
Jase: I like that idea also just from that concept of not holding grudges or trying to keep people too attached to whatever your first impression of them was.
Again, thinking about the coworker analogy, I've had coworkers that I really did not like at first. They gave me yucky vibes. I was like, "Hmm, I don't like this guy. There's something about him."
I think he had similar bad vibes about me. We ended up getting to a place where I have a lot of respect for him and I like him even though I don't think I'd ever go out of my way to hang out with him. We can be cool together.
I have the sense of, okay, yes, something about us rubs each other a little bit wrong, but I like the guy enough anyway. Some of us were taught, if you get a bad vibe, that's it, they're dead to you forever. Just staying open to that idea of finding something you can like is really important.
Emily: Let's move on to the next one. What are some polite or maybe regretful ways you may have notified a meta of a very negative past experience with another person that they are intending to date while leaving room for the possibility that they have done the shadow work and grown since you've last had contact with that person? Pitfalls, best practices.
Dedeker: This is a deep, deep, deep well of a question, in my opinion.
Emily: Indeed.
Dedeker: Yes. I think that the non-monogamous community needs to deal with this maybe more so than people who are monogamous. Because the fact that we're more likely to be crossing paths with exes, maybe more likely to be crossing paths with exes' metas or ex metas or our meta's ex or all those things.
I think we're more likely because we're in these smaller dating pools, smaller communities. We're more likely to have to deal with the situation of, oh, I dated someone. I had a negative experience with them, and now I am watching them going and dating somebody else.
Or maybe they are currently dating someone else, and I'm having to figure out. How do I deal with that? Is there some particular onus on me to have to notify a meta or a potential meta that, "Hey, I had a negative experience with this person?"
Jase: Something that just jumps out to me real quick I wanted to point out is the fact that they use the word "notify" in this question.
Honestly, I think if that's the way you're thinking about it, that should be a little bit of a warning light that pops up because it's not saying, should I open up to my metamour about this thing? As in we talk about these sorts of things and I'm debating whether I should share this or not.
It's "notify," meaning almost like I'm going to go out of my way and tell them this thing that they didn't ask for that they don't normally talk to me about just because I had this bad experience.
Not to say that's always the wrong thing to do, but that should raise some flags of, "Okay, let me approach this cautiously and see if this actually is the right thing to do."
Dedeker: Okay. This hits close to home for me. I'm going to share my experience going through this in the past, fully understanding that many people listening may completely disagree with what I chose to do.
I'm fine with the choice that I made. I totally get some people are not going to be fine with the choice that I made.
Basically, the situation was that I was in a relationship with someone who literally physically abused me, right? It was literally an intimate partner violence situation. He was also dating somebody else, dating my metamour. I was on speaking terms with my metamour.
She and I had formed somewhat of an independent acquaintance relationship during the course of that relationship. When I broke up with this person, I struggled right out the gate of some really messed up things happening in our relationship. What is my obligation to tell my meta about the things that happened?
I had no idea what to do. I asked my therapist at the time. My therapist had zero experience with non-monogamy. I think she also really couldn't give me a good answer or good guidance there.
I went and did what we all do sometimes, which is go anonymously post on the polyamory subreddit, trying to get other people's thoughts and opinions on this. I explained the situation in the polyamory subreddit.
At least at that time, people's overwhelming response was like, "You have to tell her. You have to tell her what happened in your relationship." I spent a lot of time being like, "Okay, I have to tell her. I have to think about how I'm going to write this email to her or get on a phone call with her. How do I tell her?"
I never did. Part of it being that, I think at that time, when I was newly out of this relationship, there was a lot of other stuff that I had to deal with on my plate.
I had to deal with just transitioning out of that relationship. I had to deal with the PTSD that showed up six months later. I had to deal with talking to my family and friends and the people that were much closer to me about what happened in that relationship and what I needed.
I think, ultimately, I came to this conclusion that I think my own inner peace right now is more important than feeling the need to notify this person of what happened in our relationship.
Now, again, there were some particular circumstances going on, in that, the relationship that my ex had with my meta was a long-distance one. They didn't see each other very often. It wasn't a day-to-day relationship.
It was maybe even a little bit more of a comet relationship. For me, it was kind of like, well, I don't know. That's on them.
I know this is really uncomfortable for people to think about, but I also had to try on this idea of maybe this partner that we hold in common has done that shadow work.
Maybe this is behavior that partner will never express towards my meta. I don't know. Maybe they will have grown since we broke up. Maybe this is something they will never do again. I don't know.
For me, it was just like, I can't stand the thought of opening up this basket of worms again. If my meta comes to me and asks about something, then I can talk about it. It's not on me to go and specifically tell this person, "Hey, this happened in this relationship over here."
That was the choice that I made. I don't necessarily regret that choice. From what I could tell, I don't think that relationship lasted anyway for reasons that I didn't want to dig into. I don't know. That was my thing. I think some people will respect that choice and some people will really not respect that choice. That was kind of where I landed on it.
To go from that situation to where there was literal abuse to what this person is saying, which is, "Oh, I had a negative experience with this person," then I feel like, no, this is not your job. It's not your job. It sounds like if they've asked this question in this way of like, "Hey, how do I create room for the possibility that this person has done the shadow work and they've grown?" I'm like, "There, you've created that possibility by staying out of it."
Emily: Oh, God. This is really difficult because I know I've had relationships with people who have been emotionally abusive. I have spoken about it to their exes after the fact and discussed like, "Yes, this person wasn't great in a variety of ways. Those ways sort of parallel each other, your experience and my experience."
It's really tough because I agree with you, Dedeker, that especially in polyamorous relationships, you may be in a relationship with someone and you may be having a really shitty time, and someone else may be having a really great time. That just simply is a fact.
It doesn't necessarily mean that your relationship with them is going to be identical to their relationship with every other person they're ever in a relationship with. That's so tough because I do have this knee-jerk reaction of I want to alert the world to the shittiness of said person.
It's not always going to be the case that that is everyone's experience of them. It's a really pick-and-choose thing, especially if this person is in a community. You don't want to put them on blast and just say, "God, they're terrible."
Dedeker: I think that's the thing I need to clarify also about my situation. I knew I don't have to interact with this person ever again. We were not running in the same circles. This partner and my meta is like, we are not at all going to have to interact, again, based on the circumstance.
I think if I was in a community that would make that choice a little bit harder, if it's like, "Oh, this person who did something really horrible to me, I now have to instantly be going to the same events as them or going to the same meetup groups as them, that would make it a lot harder.
For myself in that situation, it was a little bit easier. Maybe I had more of the privilege of just washing my hands of the whole situation and letting the chips fall where they may, so that I could then focus on my own healing work and what it was that I needed.
Jase: In this person's situation here, they're saying they're debating notifying a metamour about a negative experience that the question asker had with a totally different person that that metamour is intending to date. This isn't even their shared partner.
This is some other ex of theirs that their metamour, which we could also read as acquaintance in this case, it sounds like, is intending to date this person. That's also part of it too, right? Is this someone that you give each other advice a lot and talk about your past relationships? Or did they ask you for your experience?
Then it's a very different question than, well, I only kind of know this person and I had a shitty time with this person. Do I tell them? I would say no. That doesn't make sense, right? You two might not have been compatible. It's like we talk about on this show.
Emily: It's unsolicited advice.
Jase: Well, and that someone doesn't have to be a bad person for you to break up with them. It's just not the right relationship for you. That might be the right relationship for them, right?
Maybe, even if that person hasn't done that shadow work, as you've said, that might just be something that for that other person isn't as big a deal, or is a thing they can deal with, or that they can grow with or whatever. You can't know that.
I would tend to put that out there. If you're thinking about going out of your way to notify someone who might be like, why are you messing in my business and trying to mess up my relationships? That to me feels weird.
Dedeker: That's the other thing. If it's just reporting on a bad experience or a negative experience you had with someone, I guess I'm wondering how likely do you think it is that this person is going to listen to you?
I think you can express whatever it is that you like, but if you're super attached to the outcome being, that means this person doesn't date this person, I'm like, yes, good luck with that. You have to let people be the ones to make their own decisions.
If this is inspiring you to not just want to "notify" this person of the bad experience you have, but also be like, I need to go on a campaign to convince you not to date them, that's going to be taking on a lot of emotional labor and energy for something that you don't have a ton of control over. I think that would be the thing I'd want to warn people away from.
Jase: Something we want to keep in mind here is that we don't really have any of the actual contexts about this question. We're making some assumptions, one, based on how we see a lot of people.
I think social media's really encouraged this, but doing a lot more meddling in other people's relationships that maybe we shouldn't be.
Also, some of the things like the question saying "notify" rather than "share about" or "talk to," implying they don't have a close relationship, but we could be totally wrong in this case. It really does depend on that situation.
It is worth considering, am I afraid that if I don't tell this person this thing that they'll be in actual physical danger? Or that this is something very, very serious that I need to warn this person about? There's something that I have evidence to suggest this is a pattern and this is likely to repeat, and this person, because of the situation that they're in with this person, I'm afraid for them.
Yes, you're going to make a different decision then. Or at least I think you could to say, "Yes, I do want to step in and do my part as a good citizen." If it's just to say that you had a shitty experience with someone, then not.
I think it's up to you, the listener and the question asker, to do that inner work yourself and that shadow work yourself of where on that spectrum am I? Which way is this coming down?
If you just need someone to tell you, "You don't need to go around and tell everyone the bad experience you had to save them from maybe having a bad experience, "then yes, you're off the hook. That's not your responsibility. You don't have to do that.
If it is something a little trickier and harder, then yes, you are going to have to really give that some consideration and decide what is the right thing for you to do.
Emily: All right, let's set that down now and move on to something a little bit more uplifting to finish off this episode.
This question asker said, "This is silly because y'all obviously talk about it all the time couched in other topics. I was thinking about how nice it would be to hear about the joys of poly TMTMTM.
I love that they put that in there. I think it'd be so lovely to hear y'all talk about your experiences of poly euphoria where you're like, "Damn, yes. This feels great."
Jase: Yes.
Dedeker: Damn, yes.
Jase: This feels great. I just had an experience of this a couple of weeks ago. No. When one of Dedeker's new partners was up, we were all hanging out playing video games on the couch together. If they passed each other in the hall, they'd give a little kiss or whatever.
We were all sitting near each other on the couch. He and I are pals. It was just like, "Yes, this is cool. This is nice to get to have this. We don't have to be so stressed about, "What does this person think, what do I think?"
Specifically, it made me feel really good about the fact that I've been doing this as long as I have. To where it was that this same experience might have been just a little more uncomfortable or a little bit weirder seven years ago or however long.
It's not now. Even if those little thoughts come up of, oh, is this a thing I could be jealous about? It's like, "Hmm, yes, but it'd be better not to." That'd be easier not to. That felt really good. Just to be like, "Yes, that's a cool place to be in. I like that."
Emily: Yes, I do like that. In my brain, I think of them as paper-cut jealousy moments where it's not like, "Oh, I need to pull the brakes on this whole thing and have an emergency meeting about getting my needs met." It's like a paper cut. It's like, "I'll put a band-aid on it." That's fine.
I guess Jase, you're like, "I could be jealous about this or I could just not." It's probably better to not. I guess those times where there's enough of those years of experience and maybe enough of feeling of security in your relationships that you're like, "Oh, I'm just going to choose to not be upset about this."
That sounds so dismissive of any struggles. Trust me, I have plenty of my own struggles where I can't just choose to not be upset about it. Sometimes there are those little moments that are nice.
I think it was on that same visit the two of them jammed together while I made a mocha cheesecake in the kitchen. It was great. Emily looks so shocked.
Jase: Emily looks so jealous.
Emily: I just also want a mocha cheesecake. It's vegan. That sounds amazing.
Dedeker: Yes. I think a lot of it is related to this nice community, family-chosen family feeling moments. Times in the past, I know when Jase you had to go to surgery, some outpatient surgery, and myself and my meta getting to go along to support you in that.
I don't know. Moments of meta-teamwork feel really nice. Both on the receiving end. If I have multiple partners who are working together, or if I'm working together with a meta, that feels really good and really joyful to me.
Emily: I'd say getting to see the multiple experiences that you have with different partners in real-time. Like you said, in those community-type situations, getting to have a little fun aside with one person and then moving over to the other person and getting to kiss them or have your own mini moments with them is really lovely.
Then seeing them get to do that with other people as well. Yes, if possible, if in those moments you've gotten to a place where that's not challenging for you to witness anymore, those moments are really awesome.
It's great to see your partner also exist as a human outside of you and be flourishing in a specific way that is just simply their own. I love that. Even sometimes getting to see the two of you existing in your own little bubble over here.
It happens a lot when I am hanging out with you in person, but you have these very tender moments. It's really quite lovely to view and see. Even though we're not in relationship in that way, I think I get a whiff of a metamour experience, I think, by seeing the two of you have these really intimate moments that are quite lovely and precious to witness precious moments.
Dedeker: Some precious moments. Related to that, I think the three of us tend to have this together and have had this historically. I like being able to do a little bit of the-- what would I call it? Low-key wing-manning wing-womaning wing-personing for each other.
Even if it's not straight up, I'm going to try to hook you up with this person, but encouraging like, "Oh yes, this person's super hot." Or, "Oh yes, you totally have a crush on this person."
There's something about that, which I sometimes take for granted because in the episode that's coming out next week that I'm writing.
I spent some time looking into how so much of traditional monogamous culture really discourages us from talking about attraction to other people or encouraging a partner to be attracted to other people. Or to talk to your partner about their past sexual experiences or past relationships. That's stuff that I love.
Emily: It's so informative, it's really necessary. It's like, "Oh, you find that person attractive? Fascinating." I love that, Dedeker.
Jase: I'll throw another one in there too. Something that I've really come to appreciate over the last few years, since I haven't really had any other serious relationships more than a couple of dates since the end of 2019, so it's been a few years.
Whenever, I'm out and about in the world, or even on the online version of the world, or traveling for work, just this sense of, yes, if I connect with someone, I get to enjoy that connection. That there's not that sense of, "Oh, shit I got to stay away from this person." Or I've got to avoid these feelings.
That fear of what's too flirty or what's too close or whatever? Instead getting to say, "Yes, you know what? I'm not going to feel some pressure to make something happen necessarily." If it did, that's cool. That's just a neat feeling.
It's getting the best of both worlds, of having that sense of-- I have a great relationship and I love that, and that's awesome. I've also got these really good friendships that I prioritize and I value. Also, if someone wants to flirt, I'm down to flirt. We'll see what happens there.
That's just cool. That's awesome, getting to have that feeling. I think that's one of the things that I really have come to appreciate, especially not having other partners right at the moment. Of just that, yes, but I still feel like a polyamorous person in the sense of I have that availability or that freedom to explore different connections as they come.
As opposed to trying to force them to happen because I need a partner right now or feeling like I can't let them happen because I have a partner right now.
Dedeker: Something that I've been thinking about for years is, I think being non-monogamous has enabled so much more-- I don't really know how to describe it-- but breathing room around my own sexuality.
I don't just mean that regarding having sex with multiple people. I mean literally being able to explore different types of attraction. Because for me, being someone who identifies as pansexual, that's just complicated for me. I really appreciate that.
For instance, I can go to a partner and just be open about these things of, I find myself attracted to this type of person, but I've never really explored that part of my sexuality. I'm thinking about what could it be like, yadda, yadda, yadda. I don't know.
There's something about, I guess what you were talking about, Em, being able to have an independent sexuality so that when I talk to a partner about sex, it's not just about the sex that you and I have. Or the attraction that you and I have. Or what sex ex on the table, or not on the table for you and me.
Also, for both of us independently, who else we're attracted to or what we fantasize about that's outside of just this particular relationship. I realize that's not on the table for everybody. That can bring up weird feelings for some people.
I know for me, I've just really appreciated. That it doesn't feel there are some taboo part of my sexuality that I can't talk to my partner about, or can't talk to any of my partners about, because that's just not acceptable within the relationship.
I guess that's something that you could have in monogamy. Often, I think traditional monogamy, again, clamps down on that from the get-go with this idea that your sexuality defacto belongs just to this one other person.
Anything that they can't provide or can't live up to is not something that you should really be discussing or entertaining.