421 - Infla-Dating: Love on a Budget
Dating is expensive
According to a match.com study of singles in America, dating is 40% more expensive than in was ten years ago. That alone is a good reason to try to find less expensive options, but 84% also were found to prefer simpler, more thoughtful dates.
When dating while non-monogamous, there are additional things to consider as well, such as:
One partner having more access to money than the other (for dates, travel, etc.).
Different spending abilities/limitations.
Two partners having entangled finances and no independent budget for dating.
To combat inflation and still have a good time, we came up with some ways to go out without breaking the bank! Consider:
Outdoor adventures (bonus points for getting your heart rate up!).
Movie night/film festival. Pick a theme or category and each pick a movie.
Learn something new, whether academic or a physical skill.
Look for free events at the library or local bookstores.
Watch a local sports event.
Karaoke/Arcades.
Volunteer together.
Look for local events like art walks, theater in the park, local art exhibitions, markets, etc.
Even ones that aren’t well organized can be a fun date and give you memes!
Roller skating (or ice skating?!). Makes a great opportunity for facing a little discomfort also also holding hands!
Go thrifting and pick out outfits for each other, which you then wear on a date!
Go to a fancy place but only order a single drink, or go to happy hour.
Look for cultural institutions like zoos, museums, and botanical gardens that have free days.
Music or theater concerts at local colleges/universities.
Treat yourself to an expensive, fancy thing from the grocery store. It’s still cheaper than having a mediocre meal at a restaurant or bar.
What’s your favorite fun, cheap date to do?
Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we're talking about how financial pressures are changing the dating landscape. As people are looking for more cost-effective ways to connect with potential partners, we're going to be looking at some dating trends, discussing how to have a good date, especially how to have a good date without breaking the bank and sharing some creative and inexpensive date ideas. We're here to help everyone to not feel held back by financial limitations when it comes to dating, whether that's new partners or if in your existing relationship you want to start getting out there in the world and having nicer dates to connect with each other.
Dedeker: Why are we talking about this is because everybody's broke but the millionaires and the billionaires, because everybody's broke, all of us working class folks.
Emily: Well, that looming potential of the R-word, recession, has been happening for I think two, three years now. I'm not sure if it's actually ever going to happen, but things are really expensive. I think even just to go to a restaurant like the restaurant that I work at, a freaking shake is $15 now.
Dedeker: Okay. Well, we have to clarify-
Emily: I know, I'm in Los Angeles.
Dedeker: -Emily works at a fancy vegan restaurant in Los Angeles, but-
Emily: Look, Dedeker--
Dedeker: -that's also not totally surprising to me.
Jase: Not like fine dining fancy, it's like casual dining but still--
Emily: Yes. When I started, that shake, I think it was $8. The difference in a decade is staggering. That's incredible. It's almost double what it was.
Dedeker: Yes, I know. The Skinny Confidential, which is a podcast that you enjoy, Emily, months ago she launched a pink drink that she started selling at Erewhon, which is a-
Emily: Oh, I know.
Dedeker: -super fancy grocery store in Los Angeles, charging $20 a pop. I'm just like, "Geez, what's the Multiamory drink going to be? What drink can we release and charge people $20 a pop?" We'll be rich.
Emily: Yes, I know. We're not going to go to Erewhon, that's for sure. Goodness.
Dedeker: Anyway, so yes, things be rough out here. We're ballers on a budget, as the phrase does go. There's this term that was coined by the dating app Plenty of Fish called infla-dating.
Emily: I wonder, should we call it inflata-dating?
Dedeker: Inflated? Inflata-dating.
Emily: Inflata-dating.
Jase: That's where you just date, flow up
Emily: Oh, I like that. That's like that one movie with Ryan Gosling.
Dedeker: Yes, that's the one.
Jase: Real Girl?
Dedeker: Lars and the Real Girl, yes.
Emily: Lars and the Real Girl. There it is.
Dedeker: They coined that term infla-dating to refer to intentionally going on less expensive dates due to the rising costs of goods and gas. They only said goods and gas. I'm going to put housing in there as well.
Emily: Good points.
Dedeker: Makes it hard to throw down cash on a date.
Emily: Oh, absolutely. We're going to throw a lot of statistics and things with numbers because this is about numbers, it's about money. We're going to throw a lot of that at you today. Our first statistical study thing was a match.com singles in America study, and they threw out a lot of things like the fact that dating is now 40% more expensive than it was 10 years ago. I think that kale shake that I was just talking about is a huge great example.
Jase: Even more so.
Emily: Jase and I got, at the time it was a really great apartment for what was $1,850, I think. Now the apartment that I live in now is double that and it's the same size. It's ridiculous. It's so expensive just to live in this country to live in this country, to live in any country, probably. Also things like 30% of people out there are more interested in financially stable partners, and 23% appreciate frugal people more than they did before.
Now we'll talk about what that exactly means because financial stability doesn't necessarily just mean that a person has a lot of money or that they have enough money, whatever that may mean to you. It also means that they are responsible with their money. That's seen as a really attractive thing to people now maybe more than it even was before.
You might have gone out with people in the past and they may have thrown a ton of money at a date, and that felt really good and cool, but now it may be a different thing where you're like, "Hey, this person is really responsible with their money. I know that they're not splashing out all the time. They're not living maybe above their means or right at their means. They're being responsible with their cash."
Jase: I thought that one was really interesting to see, that people specifically rated that as more interesting in a partner and more attractive, and I love that it's stability. It's not just richer, but stability. It's that I see them making good decisions and that's attractive to me. Possibly because I think a lot of us have either ourselves or seen other people that we know make some really not good financial decisions over the last several years and end up really hurting because of it.
I think just noticing that trend is really interesting and, to me, reiterates how important it is to talk about money in a very practical and matter-of-fact and honest way. Just in general, I'm not even saying on your dates although we'll talk about that a little bit later in this episode two, but just having those conversations that most of us aren't ever taught to have or taught that it's a taboo. I hope that this leads to some changes in that area.
Emily: Additionally, according to this match.com singles in America study, it said that 84% of people prefer simpler casual dates to fancy wining and dining. Again, it's more let's do something fun and casual and that's totally okay.
Dedeker: We have some specific numbers from this same survey. Now, these dollar amounts seem low to me, but you-
Jase: I agree.
Dedeker: -let me know what y'all think. They make the claim that singles are spending an average of $130 a month on dating. They break this down in--
Emily: The full spectrum of the country, not necessarily like Seattle or Los Angeles where we live.
Dedeker: Well, sure. Yes. If they're taking a mean. Do they say if this is a mean average, a median average?
Jase: They do not specify in the
Dedeker: I'm going to assume a mean average here. They break this down to $51 a month on dating apps and the dates themselves, $40 a month on appearance/grooming, and $39 a month on clothes/accessories for dates. It just strikes me that there's probably a very wide range of what people are spending because let's say if you're someone who maybe you are used to never paying for dates, it could be, "Oh yes, I spend $0 a month on the dates themselves, but I spend a lot more money on appearance and grooming or on clothes or accessories for dates or things like that." Or if you're used to taking someone out for a very expensive, very fancy date where you're probably spending much more than $51 a month, so there could be a very wide range to this, but it's interesting this is how it shakes out in the average.
Emily: Also, 25% to 30% reported being more open to free activities or things like home-cooked meals, coffee dates, and inexpensive restaurants than before.
Jase: In this case, the before is before the pandemic is the metric they used for this one. I should have clarified that.
Emily: That makes sense to me. I think, again, so many of us got so used to doing things at home and our date nights became takeout time or ordering a bottle of wine.
Dedeker: Or cook something.
Emily: Yes, exactly. Having a nice bottle of wine with a home-cooked meal. I think we're probably much more used to that now and used to the idea of just continuing that. Also, this is an interesting trend. 87% of people say that it's important for both partners to prioritize mental health. I think that's really interesting because it's nice to look at things like mental health coming before and being more important than just the opportunity to wine and dine and spend a lot of money on a partner or on yourself. That instead, mental health is going to be the more important thing and then maybe we can spend more money on prioritizing things like mental health.
Jase: I was just looking at some of the raw numbers from the study, actually, to answer that question about spending. I do see that this is probably a mean and that 58% of the people in the survey said they spend $0 on going on dates. Actually, probably four people going on dates, that number is probably at least twice as high as what that actually said there. It can be an expensive thing to do for sure. Some other kind of fun stits and stats from the study that I just thought were interesting but aren't completely relevant to what we're talking about, although maybe they're good conversation starters.
One is that 53% of people in the survey said that they're open to long-distance relationships and 33% of those said that that stance changed during the pandemic. Basically, a lot more people are open now to long-distance relationships than they were before, which I thought was interesting, and that also, people are more likely to want to explore their own sexuality.
For that, 54% of Gen Z and 47% of millennials, which are quite high numbers, I think, of people wanting to explore and figure out what their sexuality is, which I think is a fantastic number to see there. However, this one surprised me a little, 31% said that their sexual interests have become more vanilla since the pandemic, and especially Gen Z. It was sort of like, yes, we were doing all sorts of weird shit before, but now I just want something simple.
Dedeker: Interesting. That's interesting that's how you read that.
Jase: There were also 18% who said they got more kinky since before the pandemic. I think maybe it's more just that people either really wanted to explore that more or like, okay, I just want something calm and predictable right now, I'm not sure. The last one here that I thought was really cool was that 56% of respondents said that they want a partner who supports people's freedom to identify with a different gender identity than the one they were assigned at birth. I think this is worth pointing out that this is a match.com study. This is not a particularly left-leaning data set, I don't think.
That, to me, is really cool and encouraging to see that that trend, even though there's still more work to be done in this area, that at least from people who are single in America being surveyed by match.com, that's a majority that feel like that's not just their own value, but then they want a partner who supports that. I thought that was really neat.
Emily: If you're out there and wondering how the heck do I have a good date regardless of what my financial situation is, we're here to talk about some of that. There was a study in the Journal of Consumer Psychology called it A Recipe for Friendship by Woolley and Fishbach. It was talking about how eating similar foods can promote trust, which is really interesting because I have dated a lot of people and I'm currently dating someone who is not vegan like I am.
That is something that's interesting from time to time because we have to always find places that we can go that have vegan options for me. More often than not, he's not really interested in those vegan options, so we have to not just cater to what I need but also cater to him and what he is looking for as well. It's interesting that this is about, no, if you're eating similar things and that's promoting trust.
The study was fun. They did four different little studies about food. The first one was participants were at a table and they were given similar or different foods and then they also were playing a trust game. The people who ate the same food reported trusting each other more in that game that they were playing.
Dedeker: Do they say what the game was, were they doing trust falls immediately after eating together?
Jase: That sounds bad for health, I'm not sure. I don't have all of the details about the game but it was, they called it an investment game to measure trust in your game partner. I'm not quite sure how it goes but the point of the game was just that it does involve having to trust the other person in order to make certain decisions. It wasn't even that they reported trusting the other person more but that they saw from their behavior in the game, they did more of the trusting actions than the distrusting actions if they were eating the same foods at the table.
The second one, similar idea where this time they had people either eating the same food or different food and they did a simulated labor negotiation. Basically, one party was representing the union and the other is representing the bargaining company for the shareholders or whatever. They found when they were eating the same food, they had more positive and more productive discussions for both sides.
The third one was, they had someone give a testimonial about a product that was not food-related. That person giving the testimonial was either eating the same foods as the people listening or different foods and that if they were eating the same, people trusted their testimonial more about a non-food-related thing. Then the last one is just that when people saw other people eating the same food as each other, they perceived that those two probably trust each other more than if they were wearing the same color shirt, was their other option, that that didn't really
Dedeker: Sorry, I'm going to get hung up on the details here. Is it like we're both sitting around the same bowl of peanut M&Ms eating from the same plate or is that we both have our individual bowl of peanut M&Ms? Is it about the same type of food or that we're eating literally the same piece of food? Are we both biting into a same type?
Emily: Same type, I'm assuming
Jase: Same types of food, yes. It's like if we're having pizza, we're both having pizza. It's not like you're having a steak and I'm having a burger or something like that.
Emily: I think that makes sense because if you think about a family coming together to eat a meal, you're all having the same foods from that meal. It does have the sense of camaraderie and I guess intent for we're coming together and having this moment that's important for all of us and that if you're not eating the same foods, maybe it's questioning, does this person even like where I took them? Are they enjoying what they're eating? If you order the same thing and you both get to talk about my experience and your experience of having the same thing, there's a touchstone there to a degree.
Dedeker: Okay, yes. If we extrapolate out to how do we make this into a cheap, affordable date, it sounds like it's either about either just very simply just ordering the same thing or something very similar, or sharing the things that you're ordering, or I think the old classic of, let's make a meal together so we're eating the same thing, make a meal together at home.
Jase: Yes. Part of the point of some of these things we wanted to talk about here is not-- this whole thing isn't about just how to do dates cheaply, because there are lots of articles about that. In the second half, we're going to talk about some ideas that are- at least we think, are a little bit better than the usual, have a picnic suggestion that everyone likes to give.
Just in general, if you're having a date realizing there are other things that can make dates good besides just how much money you spend on them or where you go. I think that's the point of this, is looking at how can we make our experiences and our conversations more about connecting to each other on the date, which fits with that thing that 84% of people said they want a simpler, more casual date because they want to get to know someone, not just be impressed by someone.
That idea of what we can do. I just thought this was interesting. It reminded me of another study that I read about a couple of years ago, I think, that was about ordering beer. They did this study where they would have groups of people who would either go to a brewery or something that had a lot of different beer choices. Each person in the group would order their beers like they normally would, and then in the other group, everyone would write down their order secretly on a piece of paper and hand it in. What they found is if people wrote theirs down secretly, that more people ended up ordering the same thing versus, oh, someone else ordered that beer, let me get something different, which I think for us, as Americans at least, is our default response.
It's like, oh, someone else got that, I can't get it, I should get something else. What they found is that in the group where people did it secretly, not only did more people get the same beers but also afterward, people reported liking their choices better and not regretting their choices as much. It's just fascinating to me-
Emily: Some weird human psychology.
Jase: -in contrast to some other countries too like in Japan, where it's very much the opposite of if one person orders something, the tendency is that everyone else in the group is going to order the same thing even if they don't like it or can't even eat it. We had that experience going out to dinner with some people where one guy was like, "I actually can't eat what that is." Because we were like, "Oh, why aren't you eating it?" He just picked it when he could but it was just that-
Emily: Weird expectation.
Jase: -"Now I just have to go with this thing because everyone else ordered it. I went out to dinner with some people for work and there was four of us there and we were looking at the menu and asking me what I wanted. I was like, "I guess, I think this one looks nice." They just immediately turned to the server and said, "Yes, four of those please."
Dedeker: Oh gosh. Yes, the number of times, especially in Japan-
Jase: I was just like, "I didn't realize I was ordering for everybody."
Dedeker: -going out with friends. I was just like, "Okay, I guess we're all drinking the same thing."
Emily: Wow.
Jase: What I will say is cool about it and makes sense with the trust thing is that you have this shared experience then, so you have something to talk about of, "Oh, I thought this part of it was really good," or, "Oh, what do you think of this flavor?" It gives us a common ground to start from, which made this study make a lot of sense than reading about this and going, "Yes, no, actually that does make a lot of sense. I know that you and I have had at least this one common experience."
Dedeker: We can have other ones too. That's how you can hack your food choices. Your food and your drink choices, I suppose, when you're on a date. A survey from last year found that 75% of people who are going on dates found that if the other person answered their phone, they thought that that was a turnoff. More than half didn't even want to see the other person's phone face up on the table.
That gets to me, for sure. Like if your phone is face up, I can see all your notifications, you can see all your notifications. There's no way you're not going to get distracted by that. It's kind of perfectly designed to distract you from the moment that you're in. Then they found that 45% of daters thought that keeping your phone off in a way was a turn-on. I like to take this to maybe an unreasonable extreme, because if I go to the bathroom and I come back and you're not on your phone, I'm extremely turned on.
Jase: She's ready to take you back into the bathroom.
Emily: Good to know, good to know. Everyone out there.
Dedeker: I don't know. I like being intentional about our time and our focus these days, and I think it's just so easy for all of us where as soon as there's a free moment, as soon as there is a moment where we could be bored or there could be no simulations, just immediately, oh, I got this. Okay, great. On the phone. Whatever. If you do that, it's fine. We all do it. They've all trained us very well to do that, but I think if I see someone who has the wherewithal to resist that, I'm like, "Oh, yes, wow."
Emily: The next one that we looked at was the concept of having conversations about more difficult and vulnerable topics. This has been shown to lead to more satisfying and fun conversations than sticking to the easy, safe stuff like sports, TV, weather, siblings, small talk, whatever the heck. This is really interesting. I found with a person that I dated when I was non-monogamous, our very first date we hit it off really well, and we started talking about the fact that his mother had early onset Alzheimer's and that she was in a home, even though she was pretty young.
I started crying and I just was very moved. I had just met this guy, but it was really from right off the bat, just made the two of us, I think, pretty close after that. I've stayed in contact with this person and we talk to each other from time to time. It's cool, I think, having those intense conversations, and sometimes money can be a potentially intense conversation, especially if you feel like this is a vulnerable topic that I'm worried about right now or a circumstance in my life has changed all of a sudden and I don't have as much money as I once did. Just being able to put yourself out there and talk about that, I think, is really important and could potentially lead to an easier time on future dates, for example.
Jase: In that vein, we mentioned that being able to have conversations about money is just, I think, an important trait just in general for us as people. I wish that we all felt more comfortable having those conversations with our friends and family and co-workers and all of that. I think it would ultimately benefit all of us. Also, when it comes to a date, we did want to talk about-- It's one thing to talk with an existing partner. For some people it's still scary, but to talk to an existing partner about, "Let's look at how we're spending money, or maybe I make less money than you, so let's talk about how we can balance that, how we can go on dates so that it's not causing stress for me."
I think that if that thought is scary to imagine having that in an existing relationship, having it in a brand new relationship can also be really scary, but I think can also be really powerful because it's getting into that, "No, let's really talk about our values. Let's talk about the stuff that people don't normally talk about on a first date." I think, one, you can have that really fulfilling instant connection like Emily was talking about, or you really quickly learn, "This is super not compatible. It's better to get that out of the way now than waiting several years in to realize that."
Dedeker: This is hard. I think when we're first dating someone, we don't feel super comfortable necessarily to be so explicit about these things. Especially if you're interested in them, it's easy to want to just try to pick up their cues and try to match them. That means I've done a lot of dating where early on in the relationship, I just pick up on this cue of, "Oh, it sounds like maybe money is tight for them," or, "I see that they chose to buy this thing, but not that thing. Or maybe they mentioned passively something about money. So I'm just going to kind of tailor myself to meet them on that level and maybe I'll suggest cheaper things to do."
Or vice versa, like, "Oh wow, this person's a big spender." Or I perceive that maybe they have a lot of cash or a lot of income stability and so I need to play along with that, or I need to catch up to that, or I need to keep up with that to a certain extent. That's how I've gotten in some bad situations, really financially overextending myself on dates with people without talking about these things.
It's not an easy conversation to talk about. We've gathered just a couple of sample lines. I almost call them pickup lines. Sample lines that you can trot out just to serve as openers for this conversation. Again, it doesn't mean that it's automatically going to be comfortable and okay, but maybe some things to try out because I do think probably talking about money earlier on in a new relationship is better.
Something I realized the other day is when we think about financial entanglement or financial entwinement, we tend to think about things like buying a house together or having a joint bank account together. Really, if you think about it, you can get financially entwined with someone from your first date because you're spending money together, chances are. Or you're having to make decisions about spending money together, it's probably not too long before you're deciding together, "What are we going to do tonight? Are we going to go out to a movie? Are we going to go to this music festival? Are we going to go on a weekend trip?"
It's like immediately, you're having to make money decisions together, even if you're not at that point of deciding to fully entangle your bank accounts, and maybe you never will be. This is still a relevant conversation to have.
Emily: One of the just lines that you could throw out there is to sort of assess right off the bat what your financial expectations are with another person. You could say something like, "I think it's cool if we can both feel relaxed about money when we're dating. Let's chat about how we can have a good time without stressing over cash. What do you think?" I like this because it sort of invites the other person in immediately and it's providing collaboration as opposed to just saying, "I can't spend money on that right now because of X." But, "What is your situation? Here's mine. What do you think about this?"
Dedeker: I really like the emphasis on positive outcome and positive feelings. Like this idea that the whole point of bringing this up is so we can both feel relaxed about money during this part of the process instead of putting the emphasis on, "Oh my God, I'm so stressed. We need to stop spending money."
Emily: Sure.
Dedeker: Whatever. Maybe that's true, maybe that's what you say, but I really like that sort of collaborative feeling of, "This is for a good purpose so that we both can feel chill."
Jase: Yes. I'd say another one taking that even a step deeper is to say something like, "I think that being open about how we think about money can actually help us get to know each other better. I am really into saving and being responsible." You could even throw in the being financially responsible thing. "I'm all about saving and not going overboard with spending because that's important to me to have stability. How do you feel about money in relationships? What was your relationship to that growing up?" Anything to start that conversation in a more general way about your values. I'm like, "Gosh, what an intense, powerful conversation that could be if you're able to have that on your first date or an early date."
Dedeker: Another line we have is just you can be proactive about finding an inexpensive date or activity that you can go on. You can do the research of, "Hey, I found this awesome event, activity, place to go, et cetera." Insert what you found there and just say, "Hey, we could do this together. It's pretty affordable, or it's free. Are you up for it?" Now, bear in mind that using terms like affordable and/or unaffordable or cheap or expensive, that's all going to be subjective depending on who you are.
I would say be mindful about projecting your definition of affordable onto somebody else because to them it may not be. Finding some kind of mindful language about it, if you even want to take ownership of like, "Hey, I found this thing and it fits perfectly in my budget for dating this month," or whatever it is you want to say. Make it about you rather than about the other person.
Emily: It's important as well from pretty early on, I think, to be transparent about the possibility of splitting costs or just have a conversation about how exactly you're going to go about doing that. Say something like, "I've really enjoyed our dates and I thought that we could talk about how we handle the money side of things. Are you cool with splitting the bill or taking turns paying? Let's just figure out what works best for both of us." You might do something like pitch that you'll cover dinner if they pick up dessert at Salt & Straw or something. That might be a good way to set up the conversation, for example. Then you can go from there.
Dedeker: I think I've worked with some clients who have ended up in distress where they started dating someone and maybe they came in with this expectation of, oh, I'm happy to treat someone for the first couple dates, but then once we get to a certain point, I expect that we're going to be splitting the cost, or maybe they're going to pick up the tabs sometimes and then they don't, and then they don't, and then they don't.
I don't know how to bring it up and, oh God, I keep paying for all the dates and it's just expected that I keep paying for all the dates, but no one wants to have the conversation suddenly like, "Hey, start paying your share," or whatever. That sometimes giving a more tangible suggestion of, "Oh, hey, if I get dinner, do you mind picking up dessert?" Right? The example that Emily gave can be a good way to at least start breaking out of that pattern if you feel like you're stuck and you don't necessarily feel like you have the wherewithal to have the direct conversation quite yet.
Emily: Ideally, you're going to be proactive about it from the beginning if you can. Especially if you're going into a new dating prospect or thinking about getting back out there in some way. Maybe you can start having these conversations from the very beginning as opposed to letting it get really far down the line and you're like, "Shit, I just spent thousands of dollars on this person and it's really going above my means."
Jase: Right. I feel like I could talk about it. One thing I'd want to add to this too is as someone who in my adult life have had times of making pretty good money and also being super broke and in debt, that I think having these conversations where even if we're not at the point where we're so comfortable, it's just like, "How much money do you make? Here's what I make. Let's work things out from there," because I feel like that's asking a lot, even for me as someone who's like, "We should all talk about this more."
That's a hard conversation to imagine having, but being able to have some context for that conversation too, because just how much someone makes doesn't necessarily determine how much free income they have, because we don't know what someone else's family obligations, medical obligations, previous debts, health, anything like that. We don't know the whole story, but being able to have some kind of a conversation like, "Hey, right now I'm trying to get back on track financially, and so I'm really trying to keep my spending low," at least gives them clues as to the context you're coming from.
Or on the other hand, it could be like, "You know what, I'm doing well right now, actually. I'm in a good financial situation and so I'm happy to pick up a little more of this or to pay a little bit more often, but I do want us to work together on what feels good rather than just assuming I'm going to do that because I acknowledge my financial situation might change in the future, so it's important that we have that conversation."
I think that makes that conversation can feel empowering and try as much as you can to remove that pressure to just perform that everything's okay all the time, or if you ask to split it and they're like, "Oh, sure, I guess I'll do that." Then for them, that's a super difficult thing because you're getting kale shakes at Emily's restaurant, and suddenly you're thousands of dollars in debt.
Emily: Exactly. It's ridiculous. Gosh.
Jase: All right. We're going to go on and look at some ways that this shows up specifically in non-monogamy. Then we're going to get into some of our ideas for having more affordable dates that are still fun and cool and interesting, whether that's with a new partner or an existing one.
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Dedeker: We're back. We're going to be talking about the intersection of spending money on dates, inflation, and non-monogamy, because hey, guess what? When you have multiple partners or multiple opportunities to be going on dates, sometimes the costs and the expense can just exponentially increase. It's not just that, it's not necessarily just about, oh, okay, more partners, more dates equals more expense.
There are definitely, I think, situations unique, dynamics unique to non-monogamy when it comes to money and spending that we encounter quite a lot. One example is maybe you're in a relationship where one partner just has more money or access to money than the other person, and so what this can mean is the person who has access to more money has more ability, more opportunity, more options for being able to spend on multiple partners, whether that's paying for dates, or paying for weekend getaways, or for bigger travel or things like that.
I remember being in a relationship once where I was with someone who made significantly more money than I did. That was really hard because the fact that, for me, if I wanted to travel with a partner, I really had to be choosy about when that was and who that was with versus my partner was much more able to be like, "I'll do a weekend getaway with six different people, or I can do multiple international trips a year with multiple people," and so that was definitely challenging for me at the time. I think this is definitely a dynamic that people have to think about and have to be aware of.
Jase: I think this one's worth pointing out that this shows up not only in non-monogamous relationships, but also just in any dating where whether it's about dates with other people or just your means to be able to have fancy dinners and buy nice things or not, that that difference can come up, but in non-monogamy there's that like extra level of either feeling like this gives you access to more dates, or better dates, or something like that. That can be a challenge. I wanted to talk real quick about that. In your situation, Dedeker, and in other relationships you've been in, what are some ways that you've found to have those better conversations about that, or things you've done with your clients or anything like that?
Dedeker: Boy, well, in my situation, we didn't have any good conversations about it, unfortunately.
Emily: I was like, "I wonder if the relationship didn't go great, actually."
Jase: Well, in that relationship.
Dedeker: No, that was hard. I don't know. When I work with clients on this, I find it really depends on the context of people's financial situations, because this gets more complex depending on, are we entangling finances or not. Does one of us have stable income and the other one doesn't have stable income, and our own personal spending habits and budgeting habits and stuff like that.
Often, I'm working with people to try to figure out a custom solution, but really at the end of the day, I think it comes down to being able to understand and to highlight the fact that that discrepancy is there. I think people get a lot of mileage out of just being able to highlight the fact that, hey, I'm in a position where it's harder for me to go treat a partner to dinner, or it's harder for me to go on a weekend getaway because they don't have as much money.
I think really, it's about just making sure that there's mutual understanding there, mutual understanding of the impact of that. Once there's mutual understanding, then the two of you can actually collaborate on, is there something that would help make that discrepancy or that dynamic feel better to the two of us? But this is a tricky one. Maybe this is a cop-out, but I'm sorry to say I don't have a snappy formula for what's going to solve that. I think, like Jase said, this is something that people have to deal with even in monogamous relationships, or one person just has more money than the other.
Emily: Another really challenging scenario that I think might happen when there are partners that are nesting or partners that are entangled maybe in more of a hierarchical situation, not necessarily, but that's where this example took me and my thought process, was if one partner spends more money on a certain person than the other, and that's got to be probably really tough to deal with.
For example, if you are living with someone and you have a family trip every year with that person, and that's just a longstanding thing that you do, but you don't necessarily do it with your secondary partner or your non-nesting partner, that can be challenging to view on a yearly basis, or on a bi-yearly basis or whatever it is. I think that that can be really difficult. Or you go to a family reunion or you get together for holidays, or something along those lines that it ends up that the money is not being spent on you in the way that it is on the other person. That's a really internal specific conflict that I think is a potential in a lot of different relationships.
Jase: Yes, it's funny. I see that happen on the other side. I think my mind went the opposite direction of yours, Emily, or mine's that one of we're in this relationship that's been going on for a long time and now I see you going on all these fancy, fun, extravagant, interesting dates with a new person, and with me we just watched Netflix. It's like, "Hold on, wait, you're spending all your free money on this other person and not on me," but I think it's interesting that you could even end up in a situation where both partners might feel like, oh, but you're spending more time investing in bigger trips with this person while they're jealous that you're spending more nice fancy dates with this other one.
I think again, it's a really good example of a thing that just leaving it up to everyone guessing and assuming is not really going to get you very far. Being able to have more concrete conversations about how do we make this feel good for everybody. How can we make it affordable and also feel good for everyone? Again, it's having those honest money conversations that it's just so important.
Dedeker: I think this is also a hard thing where, again, even if you're not formally legally financially entwined with someone, the way that you each spend your money can still affect each other. It's like that's one fact. Then the other fact is I think especially Americans, we're all like get up out this. Don't you tell me how to spend my money. If we're not financially entwined like you don't get to dictate what my money choices are, you don't get to be judge about what my money choices are. I think there's a tension there that is hard to reconcile.
Jase: Something that I think can be helped a little bit though when you are financially entwined is on this show, we've often talked in the past about when you're getting in a relationship, there can be this tendency to rush to entwine your finances of like, oh, we should get a bank account together or something like that. Oh, that's a marker that we're serious. It goes back to the relationship escalator idea that there's just things you do just because you do to show that you're making progress in your relationship.
We often encourage people to not rush into that and to not do that unless it actually does make financial sense for you to do it. However, as a lot of people point out, they're like, "But we're already in that situation." Maybe we've already been married for 20 years and we have very entwined finances in a lot of ways, but now knowing that my partner is spending our money to go on dates with somebody else, that feels weird especially if I feel like I earned more of that money or I need it more or something.
One thing to look into here that is actually a quite nice and simple way to do it is to look at your bank and open up some separate but connected checking accounts for each of you and then put in a certain amount of money to that each month or each week or however often. You'll have to figure out what the right amount is, but essentially, the idea is that you each have your own account that has its own cards attached to it that you can spend money from that's just yours that you don't have to check in with your partner about is it okay to spend this money on this.
It's whatever, it's yours to do with what you want, but it's also not hiding it from them because it's still a linked account. It's like they can see what's in there. It's not like you're doing it to sneak around or anything like that but that it's this you have permission to do what you want with this money and I have my permission to do what I want with this money can be a really empowering option to free up some of that tension when it comes to things like going on dates.
Emily: Now let's talk about some cheap date ideas. Let's get the juices flowing and discuss a couple options. This first one I really love, and it's actually one that I've done with somebody that I went on a first date with. It was great and it was to have an outdoor adventure just on that very first date. You can do it clearly whenever you want on any day or with a longstanding partner as well, because often it's not going to cost anything or maybe it'll cost like the price of parking or something, but it's to go on a hike, for example.
One of my first dates was on a hike and it was great because it's gorgeous outside. You get to sweat a little, like smell each other's pheromones and sweats and show that you're, I don't know, able to traverse a mountain with someone. I really enjoy that. I love going on hikes with people.
Dedeker: I will say there was a period in my life where in Los Angeles, I lived right outside the entrance to Runyon Canyon.
Emily: Yes. You're lucky then.
Dedeker: That was great because it was both cheap and I could be really lazy in the sense that I could be like-
Emily: You'd just get up and go?
Dedeker: -"Let's go, let's take a hike to Runyon Canyon."
Emily: You went on some yoga. Yes, yoga it is.
Dedeker: Yes, there's free yoga also in Runyon Canyon, so great date ideas where I could literally just roll out of bed and be at the date in like 30 seconds and they would never know. They would never know. We wouldn't have to worry about parking or anything like that. That's a little bit harder here in Seattle where we don't have a lot of good weather for doing outdoor adventure dates. Ironically, everyone is very outdoorsy here. I still haven't quite made the transition.
Jase: Yes. I think also, outdoor, so we want to get outdoor ideas out of the way first because I think that's the one you hear all the time. Anytime I've looked into cheap date ideas, it's always like go on a picnic, go on a hike, go to the beach, whatever it is. I think it's cool and I do think those are great ideas, but also depending where you live, it's not always a realistic option, like Dedeker said.
Also just depending on your own physical situation, that might not be a practical option for you. Getting fresh air is great, but that's not always a perfect option for anyone, which is why we have so many more ideas here as well. The next one we have is one of my favorites, which is to do a movie night but instead of just a normal movie night, you make it a little mini film festival for two or three or however many you want to have as your movie night.
There's a couple of different ways to approach this. One is you brainstorm together and you come up with maybe two movies on a theme, or the way Dedeker and I do it is we'll try to pick two movies that have the same actor or maybe the same director or even the same composer or like something that ties the two together, but maybe they're very different from each other. Then you make a little film festival. We also like to come up with fun names for our film festival so they have like a pun in the name like our Tom Hanks one was called Hanks for the Memories. Just like goofy things like that.
Dedeker: Long pandemic, folks. It's a really long pandemic.
Emily: No, I love it. It's beautiful.
Jase: Another idea that I read a suggestion online that I really liked was that you pick a theme and then each of you picks one of the movies. That can also be fun to creatively figure out what's a weird thing I can pick that fits the theme. If you have a long night, you could do both on one night or you could also do them on separate nights. We'll often split our film festival up on a couple of different days because who's got time to watch two movies on one night? Got other stuff to do.
Emily: We spilt like Lord of the Rings up on two separate days. It's just too long. My goodness.
Jase: Yes, boy. Yes, it's too long. The idea here is to find a way to make it fun so it's not just like, oh, I guess we'll just watch a movie. It's like how do we make it an event? Maybe make some special treat for it or give little speeches before the festival about why you picked this film.
Dedeker: I know that sounds like a silly example, but literally, that's what we do.
Emily: I love that.
Jase: We do that.
Emily: I wish I could be a part of them.
Dedeker: Did and still do to keep ourselves entertained. My goodness.
Jase: Yes. When you come up for our book release event, we should do a film festival with speeches beforehand.
Dedeker: I really liked that, and this was a suggestion from The Gottman Institute. I don't mean The Gottman Institute, I mean actually John and Julie Gottman themselves told a story of when they were first dating that there was a specific hotel in downtown Seattle where they would go and they would just order one drink in the bar at the hotel and just like nurse that drink for a couple of hours so that they could hang out in the hotel in these nice swanky surroundings and talk to each other and pretend they were staying at the hotel so that no one would bother them.
Jase and I actually went and did that. We went to that same hotel and it was quite nice. I think that's a good hack where it's like we eat dinner at home so that we're not spending a ton of money, but then we go treat ourselves to like a fancy dessert or a drink in nice, cool ambiance so we can feel rich without being rich.
Emily: There you go.
Jase: You could maybe role-play about like, "Oh yes, I'm here doing a big business deal, merging a couple of companies together. What are you here for?" You could do a roleplay.
Dedeker: Okay, that's my deal though. For me, a good date, I love good ambiance. I love good ambiance. We don't have to spend hundreds of dollars. It can be a drink, but I get a lot of juice out of just hanging out in a place with good ambiance. I'm all about hacking just doing the one drink minimum and then hanging out there forever.
Emily: One of my favorites is to go to karaoke and depending, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. I know that there's a place that the three of us have been to a lot where they do have a two-drink minimum but the drinks are like $10 or $8 or something. They're quite cheap and then you just sing your heart out, which is in some instances challenging and then in others it's like, wow, that person is so talented, it's awesome. I highly recommend karaoke if that's something that you enjoy to do.
Jase: Yes. Another one that I really enjoy is looking for local events. This is like finding out whatever your local independent newspaper is, like find out their website or whatever, where they list local events. At least for me, I think the more local, the better.
Something that Dedeker and I have done over the past couple years since we moved to the neighborhood of Burien in Washington, which is a little bit south of Seattle, is it has this like little quaint downtown and they actually have like an art walk every month. Every few months, it's also a wine walk along with the art walk. What's cool about it is the art walk is free and the wine walk is also quite affordable. You get to have samples of wine as you walk down the little downtown area and stop into different shops.
We found that because it's this super local quaint unique little thing, that friends will often come too. It's not that weird. I think sometimes we worry that, oh, if I want to take you to some free thing that people are like, "Okay, is it cool?" Or it's like, "That's weird." It's almost like because it's so weird and small that it's more fun.
Or like we've started going to some like summertime collegiate baseball games that's like college baseball players in the summer do these like summer teams with players from different schools all playing together in this league. It's silly, it's fun, super cheap. I think tickets are $8 or something like that. It's just this goofy, silly thing to get to go do. It also helps us feel like we're more part of our community and just have more unique stories to tell, so that's something I've really enjoyed.
Emily: One of my favorite things to do is go ice skating. You can also go roller skating, which was a huge thing in the '90s. I think then there was roller derby had a big resurgence and now I haven't heard about it very often, probably because of the pandemic.
Dedeker: Well, there's still roller derby for sure. I didn't think it had a moment. It had a moment pre-pandemic.
Emily: It definitely had a big moment. I think that some people who have never done that before, it can be cute and you get to hold hands or you have to hang on to each other for dear life so you don't fall. If you do, then that's cute and fun and, "Oh, are you okay? Let me help you up." Yes, that can be a bonding experience for sure.
Jase: Yes, I had a very good roller skate date once. Sadly, that relationship didn't turn into anything. I was very into her, but the roller skating date was fantastic. It was so much fun.
Dedeker: I personally, I'm a huge fan of-- I guess this goes along with the hack about just going and treating yourself to one fancy drink, but I'm very much the same of like, go treat yourself to like one fancy thing from the grocery store that you're going to incorporate into your meal that you cook at home. It's still going to be more affordable than overpaying for a meal at a restaurant or getting drinks at a bar. Just find one fancy ingredient to incorporate, just to add that little bit of specialness on a date night to help it stand out from the rest of your time.
Jase: Yes, a few other ones to think about are looking for free days at cultural institutions like museums, zoos, botanical gardens, things like that. In a lot of cities, unless you of course live in one of those countries where those are free all the time, which is super cool.
Dedeker: Yes, super cool for you.
Emily: I'm like, "That happens?"
Jase: Super cool for you.
Emily: That's nice.
Dedeker: Oh yes, in countries that support the arts, you know.
Jase: Right. Imagine that. Even in countries like ours that don't often do that, often they'll have like a day each month, maybe the last Thursday of each month or something like that where they'll be free. Things like that are really cool opportunities. Also looking for opportunities to do something together that's meaningful to you, so volunteering together, maybe helping build a home for Habitat for Humanity or something like that. Right? Getting out there, doing something together, looking for free events at your local bookstores or libraries is actually a weirdly cool one.
You can sometimes find some pretty cool little talks and activities at local bookstores, local art galleries, local libraries, things like that. Something I will throw out there is that in my experience, even sometimes the ones where the event actually sucked, like it wasn't organized well, the whole thing was a mess, can actually end up being really fun things that become little inside jokes and memes for you after going on that date. I was like, "Oh boy, that really fell apart there when they tried to organize community members reading stories and that one person told that really inappropriate thing." Or whatever it is, you can get these little jokes and fun things out of that.
Dedeker: Yes, we could go on. Of course, the internet is just going to be crawling with ideas for affordable dates or affordable dates in your area. I think the main takeaway we want people to have is that you can get creative about these things, and it's also okay to talk about these things, right? I think it's important to de-stigmatize talking about money. This is a topic that brings up so much shame and self-consciousness for people, and I've seen that response from people regardless of how much money they have in the bank account. Anything that you can do to just normalize talking very frankly about money, right?
Acknowledging discrepancies in income, acknowledging how privilege affects your access to money. The earlier you can have these conversations, I think the better. Ideally, you're in relationship with someone or building a new relationship with someone where the two of you can be a team and can collaborate on ways to help make the ways that you spend money together feel appropriate, feel relaxing, and feel like it's supporting your relationship rather than making it a drag.