435 - Why Won't My Partner Sext Me? Listener Q&A with Leanne Yau
Welcome, Leanne!
We’re so excited to be joined by Leanne Yau, polyamorous content creator and sex-positive influencer, for another Q&A episode!
Leanne, aka Poly Philia, creates and curates humorous and educational memes, tips, videos, and other bite-size content on non-monogamy, queer relationships, and sex positivity. She has narrated polyamory audiobooks, launched the Happy Polydays podcast, and provides non-monogamous peer support to individuals and couples across the globe. She was recently featured as a top influencer to follow by Men’s Health and Cosmopolitan.
On today’s episode, Leanne gives us some background on her experience as a polyamorous Gen Z’er, her goal and mission as a content creator, and helps us tackle the following questions:
“Hi there! I (partnered and poly practicing ktp) recently started seeing a person who identifies as being solo poly. They’ve been a serial monogamist for the most part with sprinklings of consensual non-monogamy here and there. They have been very open and honest and have told me that they believe their eventual goal would be to find their “person” and be monogamous, but aren’t dating with that goal or intention in mind right now. We both know that monogamy or a hierarchical poly situation isn’t going to be a goal for our relationship (nor is it a possibility), and have come to terms with our relationship having an “expiration date”. We care for each other a lot and communicate really well, so this is an ongoing conversation that we both acknowledge brings us sadness. We both wish to stay in each other’s lives as friends whenever we eventually de-escalate things because we do have such a strong connection. Do you have any thoughts on this or any reframes that might be helpful around this situation? Maybe even some tips in creating a gentle de-escalation?”
“My long distance partner isn’t interested in sexting, sending sexy pics, saying sexual things over video dates, or even saying pretty benign things like “I just thought about that really hot night we had at the beach” or “I’m just missing your body.” He has no problem saying these kinds of things (and much dirtier things) to me when we’re together in person, but he says he gets freaked out by these things being sent or said over the internet It’s getting frustrating for me because I really need this kind of stuff, not only to get me excited about him and help with fantasies, but also as reassurance that he’s thinking of me in this way and misses being with me sexually. I’ve asked him to come up with code words or phrases that mean he’s thinking of certain sexy things, but he hasn’t yet. He usually says “well you should just assume that I am, you don’t need to hear me say it!” But that’s not how I work- I’m a words of affirmation person and oh my god I DO need to hear him say it. Kind of at a loss for how to fix this. Thanks!”
“Although I'm both a hinge and an arm, I experience a lot less hinge anxiety than I do arm anxiety in group in-person situations. I almost experience the inverse of what you describe in that episode (MA 334), because I tend to take too much responsibility in the other direction: I feel confident that I can be kind to and present with my partners. But metamours, especially new ones, are unknowns. I have little information, no control, and this is someone that my own loved one loves a lot so I experience high stakes that the meeting go well, with neither myself nor my metamour feeling excluded or even disappointed. What advice do you have for anxious arms?”
“As someone with bipolar 2, I struggle with partners understanding my unpredictable mood changes, despite being upfront about my condition and sharing resources. Can you provide advice for neurodivergent individuals like myself on how to better communicate our emotional experiences to our neurotypical partners?”
“Wondering if you could talk a bit about being a racially minoritised person in the polyam community and point to some resources for the white people who want to date us? Asking as someone who is neither black or white and finds that most resources and voices talking about this are generally one or the other, so keen to hear from another person outside of the black/white binary that it gets made out to be sometimes.”
Find Leanne on all social channels at @polyphiliablog, or on her website, polyphilia.blog.
If you’d like to have your question answered in a future Q&A episode, consider joining our Patreon group!
Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: On this episode of The Multiamory Podcast, we're doing another Q&A episode, this time with polyamorous content creator Leanne Yau. If you would like to submit your own questions to be on the show, become one of our patrons at patreon.com/Multiamory. In our private discord and Facebook groups, we put out calls for questions about once a month for these Q&A episodes.
Leanne Yau, our guest today, is also known as Polyphilia and is a polyamory educator and sex-positive influencer. She creates and curates humorous and educational memes, tips, videos, and other bite-sized content on non-monogamy, queer relationships and sex positivity. She has narrated Polyamory audiobooks, launched The Happy Poly Days podcast, and provides non monogamous peer support to individuals and couples across the globe.
She was featured as a top influencer to follow by Men's Health and Cosmopolitan. Also for you listening if you're interested in learning more about our fundamental communication tools that we reference all the time on this show, you can check out our book Multiamory Essential Tools for Modern Relationships, which covers some of our most used communication tools for all types of relationships, not just romantic ones or just polyamorous ones. You can find links to buy it at Multiamory.com/book or wherever fine books are sold.
Alternatively, the first nine episodes of this podcast also cover some of our most widely used and shared communication tools. Leanne, thank you so much for joining us today.
Leanne: Hi. So glad to be here.
Dedeker: Leanne, it's great to finally have you on the show. I think when people hear about non-monogamy and want to learn more about it and turn to something like TikTok or Instagram, they're going to find you, definitely. Just for our audience or anyone listening, what do you think your goal and mission as a polyamorous content creator is?
Leanne: When I started my page, I wanted to create bite-sized educational content for people that was very easily digestible and visually accessible and more importantly, very easily shareable. I find that obviously people have been making content and writing books and articles about polyamory for a very long time, but a lot of it is very long form. That's great for people who want to get an in-depth look at what polyamory is and how to do it and things like that.
For people outside of the community or for people who just want a cursory view of what it is and isn't, that can be a barrier for some people to learn more about information. I started out just creating funny memes for people to share and just to kind of get the conversation started. Over time I started this about two and a half years ago and it's grown into the platform that it is today.
I think it's really important to get people talking about non-monogamy, and even if someone doesn't know anything about it, at least the concept has been planted in their minds and they know it's a thing. My goal has always been to reach as many people as possible, so they get an idea of what it is rather than the ins and outs of how it works, and if people are interested, they can learn more, but I want to be that starting point.
I started my page as well to just inject a little bit of humor and levity into the conversation. I think my memes were a big part of that because, yes, a lot of the existing content that was there was chock-full of information and a really good resource, but it was also very serious, and particularly around topics like, "Oh, if your partner leaves you to be monogamous with someone else. Or if you go through multiple breakups at the same time or you have scheduling conflicts."
I wanted to have a funny relatable way to talk about it so people could relate to each other and share in that, but also have a bit of a laugh. My goal is education, but also entertainment because I feel like things stick in people's minds more if it's entertaining.
Jase: Fun piece of trivia, when we were starting our podcast and figuring out the name for it, initially our podcast was just about polyamory and so we went with that. The whole joke about polyamory is wrong. It should be Multiamory or Polyphilia but mixing Latin and Greek roots is wrong, that whole joke. We were debating between which of the two and ended up going with Multiamory and then you came along later and took the other one. We're long lost twins in a certain way.
Emily: It's good for joke representation for that joke, at the center at least--
Dedeker: All of us are here.
Emily: Multiple times per year at the very least.
Leanne: I feel like this has been a long time coming as well, this kind of convergence, because, that was my logic at the time. There's this meme on the internet. I make memes like, Multiamory already exists, I'm not going to steal that thunder, I'm going to take the other one. I also liked polyphilia, the alliteration of the two P's that's like why I have that logo, like the little two hearts thing.
Two P's facing apart. That's why I'm really excited to be here, because I feel like two sides of the same coin, pretty much.
Emily: I do feel like maybe some armchair science here. It's like you can almost track where someone is in their polyamorous journey by when they discover that meme. Because what I notice on the polyamory subreddit is, again, at least like once per month, there's someone who thinks they're the first person to discover that meme and they post it in the polyamory subreddit.
People are very nice, right? People fortunately aren't mean to them, but it is funny where I'm just like I feel like this is a tiny milestone in everyone's non-monogamy journey as they discover that meme and they're like, "Oh, my God, how funny. I never thought of it that way."
You've been making content for a few years. Just a quick question. How many years were you in the polyamorous community or connected to the polyamorous community before switching into making content?
Leanne: I've been non-monogamous since I was around like 16 or 17. I'm 25 now and polyamory specifically, I think approximately around like the five year mark now. I was in sexually open relationships first and then over time I was like, "You know what? I don't mind if people develop feelings. I think it's just a very natural thing that happens sometimes." Over time just transitioned to polyamory. I've been doing this for a while, particularly from a young age, which I think is becoming increasingly common these days.
Definitely when I started out in my first open relationship, it was not very commonplace at the time. I do get a lot of questions about that as a young person. I'm on the cusp of Gen Z, millennial and I think a lot of people, when they see me and they see my life, they're like, "Oh, this is a person who hasn't figured her life out yet, she'll eventually settle down and get married." I'm bisexual as well, so then there's that extra layer of it, because I feel like a lot of biphobia is involved with wanting you to pick a side, and you've being kind of confused or it's a phase.
There's multiple layers to the stigma that has been lobbed against me. I think it took a long time for my parents to come around. I think even now, it's still a whole thing that they're trying to get the grips of. At first, they were like, "Oh, you don't know what true love is. You haven't figured yourself out, your partner doesn't truly love you, et cetera."
Now they're just like, "We still don't get this, but you're an adult. You've been doing this for a while. You show no signs of stopping. You are doing this professionally." I feel like I've had a lot of conversations with my parents through making content that were accelerated and probably wouldn't have happened if I wasn't creating content about it. Yes, but that's like a whole--
My coming out journey has been, a whole other tangent. I think as a young person, people misjudge me and think that this is something that I'm temporarily doing, and I think this is something that young people get a lot of in this space.
Dedeker: It's a particular flavor of shaming. I mean, I know I remember experiencing that when I first came to non-monogamy, when I think I was 21, 22 or something like that. That's the particular flavor of pushback. That's really easy to take up the mantle on. You don't know yet, you're so young, you have your life ahead of you. Sure. Maybe it's okay for you to be spreading your wild oats, as it were, but eventually you'll figure it out.
I mean, Emily and Jase, I'm interested to hear from the two of you, because I do feel like it's not like once we entered our 30s and 40s, that pushback evaporated necessarily, but it feels like it's a different flavor. It's maybe a more confused flavor, because I think the pushback I tend to get is a little bit of like, "Oh, wait, but shouldn't you have grown out of this by now?" That sort of thing. I don't know. What's been your experience?
Emily: I do think it's interesting because I'm 35 and moving into this space of, a lot of people have had maybe marriages or gone through the first iteration of, "I'm going through a marriage and then a divorce, or I'm deciding--
Dedeker: The first wave of divorces.
Emily: Exactly. I'm deciding in my marriage, maybe I want a little something more. Now we're going to open up the relationship. It is interesting how many people I find in our age group that are asking questions and being like, "I may be interested in opening up as well. Can you talk to me a little bit more about that?" I think it's more of a curiosity, but of course, you are always going to get those people who say, "Non-monogamy is the best way to go. What you're doing is very strange and I don't understand it or I don't believe in it."
It is fascinating as you get older, how many people want to ask you more about it just because it's something that they also are moving into an idea of like, "I'm going to go there perhaps, or I'm going to learn more about it to potentially do it."
Leanne: Yes. I think it can be invalidating in different ways. If you're a young person, then it's like, "Oh, this is fine." You'll grow out of it eventually in a very condescending way. It sounds like for you in your age group, it's more like, "Oh, shouldn't you have grown out on this by now like you said." There's this note of like, again, it's condescension, but just saying that you are immature. I guess for me it's more just invalidating because it's like, "Oh, you haven't matured yet and you'll become mature eventually."
Emily: Exactly.
Dedeker: Yes.
Jase: It's all relative, too as far as age goes. I found in my workplace where I don't keep polyamory a secret, but I'm also not shouting about it all the time. It's like someone would've to look me up to see that, which is easy enough to do. I find that what I get from people who are older than me is more just this like, "Why aren't you married and having kids yet." Polyamory aside, it's like, "Why aren't you settled down? Why aren't you--"
Dedeker: Let's talk about the most important piece of this
Jase: Doing this. I think there is a little bit of that seed of, "Oh, you haven't reached that level of maturity yet," or, "You've held yourself back maturity wise," or something like that. Is a little bit of the vibe that I get. Especially, me being 41, being the oldest of all of us here, where I'm on that cusp of the Gen X millennial while you're about the same age as my sister, Leanne, and you guys are on that cusp of the Gen Z and millennials. It's interesting comparing those two cusps and seeing how, actually a lot of stuff's pretty similar. Then there's some things where it is different about what's the reasoning or the excuse or the attitude behind that feedback.
Leanne: Yes. I think related to that as well. I don't know if you've found this, but I experienced a lot of people moving the goalposts of like the success of my relationship. I think this is across age groups where people will go like, "Oh, your relationship might be going well now, but we'll see you in five years, or we'll see you in 10 years and see how that's going." Well one, a lot of relationships don't last beyond the two year mark, monogamous or polyamorous.
Secondly, if you are able to prove to them that you are actually happy and secure right now contrary to what they believe, because lots of people are convinced that, one of you cries yourself to sleep every night or that you were coerced into this whole thing, a whole bunch of other things. If you're able like, "Oh yes, we're all very happy in this dynamic and we all going to consensual. We're very enthusiastically participating it." They're always like, "We'll see you in 10 years and see how that's working out for us." It's not like you'll have that conversation again in 10 years. It's just like a gotcha point.
Dedeker: Yes. Or it's like, "Oh, we'll see when the kids show up," or when you have to do this, or when you have to do that, or when they start dating another party, all those kind of things. I think it's time for us to dive into the questions that we got for this Q&A episode. First we're going to do a little disclaimer before we dive into that.
Emily: As always, we've spent a lot of time studying healthy relationship communication, but we aren't mind-readers. We can't absolutely know everything that's going on in your life. Our advice is based solely on the limited information that we have from these questions that we got, so just please take everything with a grain of salt.
Dedeker: Remember, as you're listening to these different questions, know that everybody's situation is unique. Of course, we encourage you to use your own judgment, seek professional help if that's needed. Ultimately, you are the only true expert on your own life, and your feelings and your decisions are going to be your own. With that disclaimer out of the way, let's dive into our first question.
Jase: All right. Our first question says, "Hi there. Hello."
Emily: Hello.
Jase: This person, they clarify that they are partnered and they're polyamorous and they're practicing kitchen table polyamory, which they've abbreviated to KTP. It just makes me want to say, you're down with KTP?
Emily: You know me. Leanne may not know that, right?
Dedeker: Yes. Speaking of aging ourselves.
Emily: Exactly.
Leanne: Well, that went over my head.
Jase: Gen X and older millennials were like, "Yes, you know me." Then everyone younger than that's like, "What are you talking about?"
Emily: Exactly.
Jase: All right. This person recently started seeing a person who identifies as being solo-poly. They've been a serial monogamist for the most part, with sprinklings of consensual non-monogamy here and there. They've been very open and honest and have told me that they believe their eventual goal would be to find their person and be monogamous. but they aren't dating with that goal or intention in mind right now.
We both know that monogamy or a hierarchical poly situation isn't going to be a goal for our relationship, nor is it a possibility and have come to terms with our relationship having an expiration date. We care for each other a lot and communicate really well. This is an ongoing conversation that we both acknowledge brings us sadness. We both wish to stay in each other's lives as friends whenever we eventually de-escalate things because we do have such a strong connection. Do you have any thoughts on this or any reframes that might be helpful around this situation? Maybe even some tips on creating gentle de-escalation?
Dedeker: I already have many thoughts and opinions about this. I don't want to unload all of them at once, but I want to just create maybe a little bit of background and context for where my brain goes with this question. I feel like I remember in college, this was before I was exploring non-monogamy, but really receiving the message that expiration dating is never a good idea. Having a planned breakup is never a good idea.
Now, I want to reiterate this was in my more traditional monogamous days. Now, I do think non-monogamy creates many more opportunities for relationships to look successful in different ways. A relationship doesn't have to last forever in order for it to be successful. I think for me, this sounds like this is setting a goal of creating a temporary secure attachment on hard mode is my takeaway. Is I don't think it's impossible to create a secure-feeling relationship under these terms, but I do think it's going to be on hard mode. I have more to say about that, but I don't want to dominate, so I'll open it up to the rest of you.
Emily: I will say I have done this before in multiple instances, also when I was more monogamous leaning. I knew that this would be a relationship that would maybe last a few months, and I never was good at not still falling really hard and doing all of the really intense things and having all of the really intense feelings that you do with someone, even as the relationship is ramping up. It's tough to not get caught up in the moment.
I think if this relationship lasts for a long period of time, maybe those new relationship energy feelings aren't going to be as intense down the road. Potentially de-escalation or maybe creating some agreements around, perhaps as time moves on, we're not necessarily going to be spending the night at each other's houses often, or we won't go on trips with each other as often in this capacity, or we'll start to maybe not have sex or something along those lines.
I don't know. It's really tough because how do you know when that time is going to be? Maybe you feel it out, you can always do things to help yourself not be as hurt in the moment, but I think that that's going to happen regardless, unfortunately.
Leanne: I feel like with this situation, I think people go one of two ways, when they have a friendship or just connection of any kind that's going to have an expiration date. Some people are like, "Okay, because I know this is going to end, I'm going to hold back a little bit so then I don't get too hurt when we get to the end of it." Some people go in the other direction. They're like, "Well, this is going to end anyway, so I'm going to lean in. I'm going to go for the whole hog and really enjoy myself while it last, and it's going to be really sad, but at least we had a good time."
I feel like something that these two people need to be aligned on is which type of person that they are, because if one is holding back and the other is all in, then I feel like that's going to create a lot of potential for miscommunication and drama basically. I think another thing to consider is, if this person is with this person that they're dating, their long-term goal is to find their person and be monogamous, that's fine. It's good that they've communicated that upfront.
They had informed consent, they knew what they were getting into. However, I agree with you Emily, about when is that point where they're going to be like, "Oh, I'm transitioning from dating casually to going on my search to find that person." Because I wonder, there's a possibility that they might suddenly have realized this one day, they might just meet this person and suddenly be like, 'Oh, I want to be monogamous with them now. Bye."
Then that would be a really hard situation for this person who's asking the question. My only reference point to this is, when I was at university, I didn't engage in full relationships with people who were monogamous, but I did engage in casual, friends-with-benefit-sy type of things with people who I knew were casually dating right now, but looking to be monogamous with someone eventually, which a lot of people do. Particularly at university, you just have a lot of casual things and at some point you pick your favorite, I guess.
I always knew that this was going to be a possibility, and I was always open to that because I was like, "Yes, I'm not emotionally invested." It's like, it's chill, we can be friends after and we can hang out and it's fine, but what actually ended up happening a lot of the time is that my friend with benefits would get into a monogamous relationship and then their new partner would get very threatened by me. I've been blocked on social media. I've been told that they can't speak to me anymore or that their partner had very strict rules over how close we were allowed to be as friends.
At that point, I'd just be like, "You know what? I don't want to deal with this." This seems like a lot, and I don't feel comfortable engaging with you even as friends if your partner is going to be setting all these limits. It sucks, but it is how a lot of time, unfortunately, a monogamous dating culture turns out, because the whole point is you forsake all others, and there's very much this guarding against potential threats, even if it's someone like me who is very respectful of their dyad and would never do anything. I guess there's a lot of ways in which this could go wrong, basically, is what I'm trying to say.
There needs to be a negotiation between these two people on how all in they're going to be, whether there's going to be a clear point at which this person transitions from casual dating to wanting to be monogamous and how they're going to do that gentle de-escalation with the suggestions that you described, Emily. Also, what would happen if this monogamous new partner has certain feelings about them maintaining their friendship, how would they feel about that? I was very surprised when someone I'd been sleeping with, say, for two years, even if we weren't romantic, there was emotional intimacy in our connection.
I thought our friendship meant something and they just throw it away. They'd just be like, "Oh I found my person now." They said X, Y, Z. I don't want to talk to you anymore. I'd be like, "What? You're here-" You need to make sure that you're aligned on that front because a lot of people just assume you're on the same page about that and they make assumptions and then feelings get hurt.
Dedeker: Yes, that reminds me of a story of my own. I'm going to pull this from the archives that I like to title times when my mouth wrote checks that my ass couldn't cash. What do I mean by that was when I was with someone. I was feeling very magnanimous. It was maybe a somewhat similar situation of this person was on the fence about non-monogamy. They weren't super upset or triggered by it. They were supportive, but they were honest about like, I don't know, I don't know if this is in my future. I might be monogamous eventually, I don't know.
I was just an angel of compassion and support of this person, just like, I don't care. I just want you in my life, I want us to support each other, we can be friends. Even if you go and become monogamous with the love of your life, that's totally fine. I totally get it, right? Then my ass couldn't cash that because I realized that when that happened, when he found his person and then it was that like, this person doesn't like you, so I can't really talk to you. This is going to be a problem, okay bye.
That I realized that when I was being so generous in that sense, in the back of my mind, it was like, "Yes, I've created this whole narrative of how that's going to go already." I've created this whole narrative of how this person is going to become monogamous in a way that's going to cause the minimum amount of hurt and damage to my feelings. I already assumed, "Oh, it's going to go in a super smooth way and be great." Instead, it happened in this really abrupt way. I share that just in the sense of, I think, to piggyback off of what Leanne was saying is, have a little bit of a reality check with yourself about what you're expecting, about how this may go.
See if that matches with the other person's expectations of how this may go, and maybe allow yourself and give yourself permission that regardless of how the two of you work this out, or what agreements you make, or what plan you make, have permission to just know that this ultimately may still be more upsetting than you realize that it is. Even with both of you fully on board, fully aware of what may happen, that it may still really hurt a lot.
Jase: I just want to add one last piece here just to throw another side into this, is I've had this situation several times in my own life where either I knew this from the start or suspected that they eventually wanted a monogamous relationship with someone else, or times where I didn't know that that was coming. I found that for me, most of the time that's happened, it hasn't been this like, you have to cut off communication with this person. It hasn't gone to that extreme, "Wow, I didn't expect that to happen at all." Even with everything being amicable, we just didn't stay very close.
I think that's something else to keep in mind in terms of setting your expectations is, there's also a really good chance that you'll have a great time and you'll think back on this relationship positively, but you might not stay as close as you think you would right now, and that that's okay. I still think positively about those relationships. When we do get in touch or see each other, it's great and we get along well and everything's fine, but it is hard to maintain that same level of closeness.
I think making that transition really smooth, like people imagine, often doesn't happen. Just to set some expectations and understand that doesn't mean it's a failure, doesn't mean you did it wrong, but that you might not be as close after that and that that's okay.
Leanne: Yes, I think de-escalations often look really good on paper and then in practice, they can be really complicated. Because if you're imagining the relationship anarchy smorgasbord situation with all the different plates of romantic, platonic, sexual, whatever. It's not as simple as being like, "Oh, we were romantic and sexual and platonic, and now we take out these bits, and that's fine."
There's a lot of overlap, there's a lot of mixed feelings, and sometimes it can be really complicated, holding on to what you want to maintain and what feels good about the connection, while also at the same time grieving what you've taken away or what you have lost. That's why so many people just prefer a clean break and not to talk to their exes because sometimes staying friends and de-escalating, that transition is really painful and sometimes draws it out even more. I've de-escalated/broken up with various people, and it never turns out the way that you expected. Sometimes in good ways and sometimes not.
Emily: All right, let's move on to the next one. My long-distance partner isn't interested in sexting, sending sexy pics, saying sexual things over video dates, or even saying pretty benign things like, "I just thought about that really hot night we out on the beach." Or, "I'm just missing your body." He has no problem saying these kinds of things and much dirtier things to me when we're together in-person, but he says he gets freaked out by these things being sent or said over the Internet.
It's getting frustrating for me because I really need this stuff not only to get me excited for him and help with fantasies, but also as reassurance that he's thinking of me in this way and misses being with me sexually. I've asked him to come up with code words or phrases that mean he's thinking of certain sexy things, but he hasn't yet. He usually says, "You should just assume that I am. You don't need to hear me say it," but that's not how I work. I'm a words of affirmation person, and oh, my God, I do need to hear him say it. Kind of at a loss for how to fix this, thanks.
I've been thinking about this question quite a lot just because I know I'm not a words of affirmation person, and my partner definitely is, and I have other love languages that I prefer, but I just do want to throw out there right off the bat like, you can't change anyone and you can't tell a person to do something and expect them to necessarily do it unless they really want to do it. I think for myself, even though I know that I'm not a words of affirmation person, I know that my partner is and I want to do something that makes him feel good. Even if it's a little bit more challenging for me, I try to take that extra step because I know that it'll make him feel good, and vice versa.
He says, "Oh, I really enjoy being able to do acts of service for you. Even though it's not necessarily the first thing that I jump to, I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do it just because I know that it'll make you feel happy." I think those things of let's do code words or something along those lines, maybe that is a really good option, but if he's not going to pick up the mantle and do it, I don't know what there is to say. You may just not be able to get him to do it.
Dedeker: I think it's important to point out that side of it, right? That it's like, obviously, we can't force somebody to do something they're ultimately not comfortable doing, right? We can't just coerce something into this. I can relate to this situation, particularly when I was trapped long-distance over the pandemic with another partner of mine, and being able to care for our relationship and also especially care for the sexual side of our relationship, really caused me a lot of anxiety.
On the one hand, this person mentions that they've asked their partner to come up with code words, the partner hasn't. That's the part that I'm zero-ing in and on here because I'm like, "Okay, sure, I know it can be annoying to feel like I need to step up with this extra mental labor, but you can also be the one to suggest what about this code phrase?" Your partner could come up with something and it doesn't do it for you, or you don't really like it. This may be a case of you needing to guide a little bit and get that ball rolling. Hopefully, it does become a collaborative effort, not just dictating to your partner, "You need to say these things to me."
Jase: Micro scripts.
Dedeker: Yes, create a micro script. Even if it's just a code word, emoji exchange, that can be something. I think I am also more interested in-- I think the missing information here is, does this person's partner understand the importance of this? I think there's something different between someone who understands what their partner needs, understands that their partner is a words-of-affirmation person, understands why their partner wants this and they can say, "Yes, I totally understand why you want this, and also here are my hangups. Hey, let's try to work on finding a middle ground of some kind," versus if this person completely doesn't understand why you even want this.
This partner giving the phrase of, "Oh, you should just assume that I'm thinking about these things. You don't need to hear me say it," to me maybe tips off, maybe they don't really fully understand actually what's in their partner's heart and what's driving this particular desire. That's given some question marks for me.
Leanne: I completely agree with you, Dedeker. There were a couple of question marks for me as well regarding like, "Oh, that's an interesting thing." He said, "Oh, well, why do I need to do this?" You should just assume that I do. It does so show a lack of understanding of what's going on in this person's inner world and why this is so important to them. I also find it really interesting that this person's focusing on sexual words of affirmation specifically, like what is that tapping into? What is that, that they're really asking for from their partner? I think as well, I would really want to know why this partner is so resistant to providing this thing.
This person's mentioned how they use WhatsApp and it's encrypted, so maybe there's some privacy concerns or maybe he just finds sexting cringe. I don't know. This person who asked this question said, "Oh, in person, he has no problem saying these things, but over text, they seem to find it so hard. Why? It's the same thing." It's not. I think that in person, you say things spontaneously, in the moment and it's very different from typing on a phone or computer or whatever, where you can draft and redraft things or-- It's just a different vibe. Some people like sexting, some people like doing sexy video calls, and some people are not comfortable with that for whatever reason.
It feels different if you're not face-to-face, and I think that's a valid preference. I'm not really a sexting person. I'd have to be in a very specific mood to sext with someone. I very freely like sexual in-person. I relate to this person's partner. I wouldn't be as resistant, but I understand why there's this difference between how he acts in person versus over text. I agree with you finding a bit more about, does he understand what's going on for the listener and also what's going on for him because this person said a lot about why this is important to them but hasn't said a lot about why their partner's so resistant to it.
Jase: I just want to throw in a couple of things. One is depending on your long distance, if you're in different time zones, that's also something that I've struggled with in the past. When Dedeker has been in a different time zone or if I've had other partners in different time zones where there's a-- it's the middle of my workday right now. I'm not feeling very sexy. For you, it's 10:00 at night and you're feeling more sexy, so there can be a little bit of a disconnect there.
I don't know if that's the situation here, but just to keep that in mind that there's not a beautiful solution to it but just something to be aware of that you might be in very different parts of your day, very different head spaces because of that. I thought of it because of Leanne you saying, you've got to be in the right headspace to get into that. Even if that is normally something you're into, the time of day might affect that. Then the other is just to reiterate the code words thing I think is a cool idea. Step up and help come up with those.
The idea of emoji is great and that's something that I've actually done very successfully before where picking not the standard eggplants and peaches and all that nonsense, but finding some other emoji that's a little more of an inside reference to something between the two of you. One makes it more personal, more fun, but also more secret. It's not just like, "Oh cool, so clever." You did the splashing water emoji. We all know what that means. I think that's just something to remember. You can step up and do some of that work to help that if this communication is important to you.
Leanne: I think one final thing to add to that, which I just thought of related to what you said about headspace is. I wonder if there's a difference in how this person and their partner experience desire. Is it spontaneous? Is it contextual? Whatever. Some people, they can get into the mood immediately and all be thinking about sex throughout the day and send a sexy text. Worse, maybe this other person, they're like, "Oh, well if I'm not physically with my partner, I'm not really thinking about that all the time." It might feel really unnatural for them to send a sexy text if that's not how they're feeling in the moment.
I wonder if that's something to do with that as well. I'm thinking of the book Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski, which talks about different types of desire and how some people have different ways of experiencing it. Maybe the listener, I'm guessing, is maybe more spontaneous, wants their partner to be more spontaneous, whereas the partner's a bit more responsive maybe or contextual. Texting that stuff doesn't feel right in the moment.
Jase: We're going to move on to a few more questions here. First, we're going to take a quick break to talk about some ways that you can help keep this content coming to everyone out there for free every week, and that is to take a moment, check out our sponsors. If any are interesting to you, go check them out. It does directly help support our show. Of course, joining our Patreon and joining our communities there is another great way to keep this content available to everyone out there for free.
Dedeker: We're back. We're going to dive into our next question. The question asker says, "Although I'm both a hinge and an arm." Just to do a quick explainer for anyone who may not understand what that means. When we refer to a hinge, usually we're referring to a V shape wherein there's one person who has two partners. Those two partners are not dating themselves. The person that we're talking about is the hinge, the pivot point of that V, and then the two other partners refer to as an arm. This person is saying they are both the hinge point and they're one of those arms as well.
"Although I'm both a hinge and an arm, I experience a lot less hinge anxiety than I do arm anxiety in group, in-person situations. I almost experienced the inverse of what you describe in that episode," and they're referring to episode 334 where we talked about hinge dynamics. "Because I tend to take too much responsibility in the other direction. I feel confident that I can be kind and present with my partners, but metamours, especially new ones or unknowns. I have little information, no control, and this is someone that my own loved one loves a lot. I experience high stakes that the meeting go well with neither myself nor my metamour feeling excluded or even disappointed. What advice do you have for anxious arms?"
Jase: Again, we need people to have really good signoffs like anxious arms in Arizona.
Dedeker: Seriously. I know.
Dedeker: I think if you give us a good sign-off, we may bump your questions at the top of the queue, so we'll incentivize it.
Jase: There you go.
Leanne: This is a question that I actually get a lot on my page from my clients, et cetera, where people are like, "Oh, I'm meeting my metamour for the first time and I'm really nervous about how it would go." Or, like, "I don't know how to act when I'm around my metamour. I'm really nervous. What if my metamour gets jealous if I show affection to our shared partner," and stuff like that?
I think that's quite a common anxiety because if you are a hinge, you have two partners that you know quite well, and you can manage that, although that comes with its own challenges. Like this person said, this person who you are not dating or maybe you don't even know that well or have never met, there's a lot of uncertainty about how things could go and what they're like and whether they'll like you or whatever. I think a lot of the time people really get into their heads when they meet metamours about like, "I am meeting the Metamour," because at the end of the day, you are just meeting another person that your partner happens to be dating.
I really try to encourage people to go into it as meeting a person rather than this person my partner loves specifically. The more you just focus on them as a regular human being and you get to know each other as friends rather than as metamours specifically, the less pressure there will be to facilitate a strong political dynamic or whatever it is that you are anxious about.
I always see people experiencing a lot of insecurity about, "Oh, what if they're really different from me or really similar to me? What does that say about my relationship with my partner," and getting their head about that as well. I think wherever possible, try and distance yourself from how you relate to each other within the polycule and just go in just, "I'm meeting a new person."
Dedeker: It reminds me of advice that I came across when I was early in my non-monogamous journey, which happened to be at the same time that I was also early on in my own journey into Buddhism and meditation, that I read this fantastic book called If the Buddha Dated. That was, of course, within a dating context but there's this huge emphasis on when you're heading into a first date in particular and you're feeling that anxiety and the nervousness, is it going to go bad? Is it going to go well? Again, that emphasis on just focus on being present and getting joy out of getting to know a new unique human being, whether it goes well or not, whether you think this is a match or not.
I think the same thing here with a metamour. I appreciate that this person seems to recognize that they tend to take on too much responsibility. Maybe just a reminder of, it's not 100% your responsibility. As far as the interaction going well or building a relationship of some kind, that's a shared responsibility in the sense of it's up to everyone to show up and, again, just be good human beings and be present and then just see what happens.
I know I definitely tend to be a control freak and maybe think too much about these things also. It's like, "It's all on my shoulders to make sure it all goes well and to be running around and making sure that everyone's okay." That can come from a really positive place. That can be a positive trait and also it sounds like it's just stressing this person out. Maybe just a good reminder that it's not 100% on your shoulders to make sure that it all goes perfectly.
Emily: Dedeker, I know that you've talked about some best practices when it comes to meeting metamours. You go on coffee dates and stuff with them. I think that it would be fun to even do something like, "I'm going to go on a walk with them, or I'm going to go to a yoga class and then we go get coffee afterwards," something that's a shared-- we're going to do an activity together potentially. That takes the pressure off because we're doing something else together rather than just, I have to sit down and look at you and talk to you and try to come up with small talk or conversation. Engaging in something together is nice.
Now I will say also there is a potential that the two of you weren't necessarily going to love each other. I think that's okay too, to put the pressure off to a degree and just be like, "I'm going to have a relationship with this person in some context because they are my partner's partner, but it doesn't necessarily need to be loving and gushing and we love each other so much." It can just be fairly neutral, which I know the two of you have also talked about as well, that sometimes if I'm neutral with my metamour, that's also okay.
Leanne: I want to add to that, Emily, around the context of the meetup. I agree with you that doing something together will take the pressure off of like, "Oh, I need to talk to you." I also wonder if is this person meeting them out more alone or with their shared partner. Are they meeting just the three of them or are they meeting in a larger group context? This is my individual preference and different people do different things, but for me, when I introduce partners to each other or when I meet a metamour or two, I prefer to do it in a larger group setting, say, at a larger social with other people there.
If you're worried that you and your metamour might not get along or you might run out of things to talk about, then there's other people to talk to. There isn't so much pressure to be constantly focused on each other 100% of the time in a larger group. If you're looking for ways to take the pressure off and not make it out like, "This is the metamour meet." Meeting at a larger gathering might help with that. Some people might view it differently. I know some people definitely prefer the more intimate meeting over drinks or coffee or something.
For me, I've always preferred a larger social because I could talk to other people, come back to them, bring them to talk to this person, get other people involved, talk about different things. There's a bit more variety. There isn't as much pressure. I think the context here is really important. I agree you might not love your metamour but you don't have to vibe super well as people. I think the whole emphasis around kitchen table polyamory and compersion and stuff like that, I feel like a lot of people have this pressure to be absolute besties with their metamours. That's not the case.
You guys have talked on episodes about different types of polyamory, garden party polyamory, and lap sitting polyamory, and all these other terms. There's so much nuance in these dynamics. I have metamours who I see every week and I have metamours who I've met once and we know each other from afar and are fine with that. As long as you are respectful and civil towards each other and you respect each other's relationships and you appreciate the mutual value or whatever enjoyment that you give to your shared partner, that's really all you need.
You can be very different people. You don't have to get along. Of course, if you like each other and like spending time together, then that's great, but it's not a guarantee nor is it a prerequisite for a healthy, yeah.
Jase: All right. I'm going to take us to our next question here. This one is, "As someone with bipolar II, I struggle with partners understanding my unpredictable mood changes despite being upfront about my condition and sharing resources. Can you provide advice for neurodivergent individuals like myself on how to better communicate our emotional experiences to our neurotypical partners? I would even add to that just someone who has a different type of neuroatypicalness too."
We've talked about this before on episodes about being neurodivergent, is that that's not a catchall where it's all the same. There's a whole huge variety of that. I think this is a great question though of how can I better communicate those needs to facilitate partners being able to date you while you have whatever it is, in this case, bipolar II.
Dedeker: I can speak from the other side of it since I'm currently dating someone who is on the mood disorder spectrum, which does include bipolar. Again, representing the other side of this. For myself, I know I had to have a big mindset shift because I think that for many years, the way that I approached this person was the sense of, "Oh, this person experiences emotions the same way that I do. They just experience them more intensely. That's all it is. That means that maybe the things that I do to emotionally regulate will work for them as well. They just maybe need to do it more intensely than I do."
Thinking that we were saying the same in that regard, and eventually, I did have to have a shift in my thinking of realizing, "Oh no, it's just straight-up different. I cannot project what I know about my own emotions or about the ways that my emotions work onto this person and think that I understand what it is that they're going through." For me, that was a big impetus behind realizing, "Oh no, I actually need to research this and consume resources and talk to other people and talk to therapists and actually get as much information as they can to actually try to understand what's going on with my partner in addition to hearing his input, his description of what's going on with him."
It's like, "I need to listen to that. I need to believe that. I need to make an effort to understand that, and I also need to educate myself more." For myself, it was turning towards resources and then also making sure that those resources matched what his experience was. For instance, I went and read a really fantastic book that was specifically about when you're in a partnership with someone with borderline personality disorder. Also as I was reading it, I was checking in with him about, "Okay, so this book says this and they talk about this, does that match your experience?" Or, "This book suggests this. Does that seem like that's something that would be helpful for you so that it could be a dialogue?"
As far as making it helpful here, and maybe it's similar to what we were talking about with the question before, is I almost wonder about that understanding point. There's a little more information in this question that we didn't read. If you feel like do your partners just really not understand what's going on? Do you feel like they haven't made an effort to actually understand? I wonder about that as well.
Leanne: I don't have bipolar nor do I have any partners who are bipolar. However, I am another form of neurodivergent. I was diagnosed autistic when I was five and two years ago, I was also diagnosed with ADHD. I do struggle a lot explaining this to partners sometimes about my unique needs and accommodations and things like that. I think it is difficult because a lot of the time people are ableists without realizing that they are. For me with autism, particularly because when people first meet me, I'm not someone that people would typically clock as autistic, I guess. I make good eye contact. I really like being social. I don't fit the stereotypes of what people think of--
A lot of people assume that I've gotten over it somehow when in reality, I still have those needs, they just crop up in unexpected situations and that can be a shock to people sometimes. Also because I don't present outwardly autistic versus–I hope you're understanding what I'm trying to say here. There's almost this pressure that I experience from partners who aren't very familiar with it, that I should get over myself and, "Oh, if you learn how to do these things and you conform in this way, then why is this bit so difficult for you?" Or, "Why did you suddenly break the trend and act so differently?" That can be its own very covert ableism.
In other scenarios, I've had partners be extremely understanding and very accommodating of my disabilities but then if we were fighting or if we were ending the relationship then they'd suddenly weaponize that and use it against me. Or, if I got really triggered, had a meltdown, they'd mock me or whatever, which has been horrible. One thing that really stood out to me about this question is how this person mentioned how they feel like they need to apologize for the way that they are biologically. I think this is a result of a society that is built a certain way to accommodate neurotypical, as I prefer to say, neuro-conforming people which--
How this person's brain works is just a different way. It's not wrong. It's fine. I think if you are dating someone who makes you feel bad about something that's out of your control, or if someone makes you feel like a burden or an inconvenient, that's probably not someone that you really want to be with long term because they'll always see your disability as something that's separate to you rather than something that's part of who you are. Obviously, there are a lot of complications that can come up with disabilities.
If plans get canceled and things like that, yes, that is frustrating, but I think the worst thing you can do is blame your partner for it and make them feel bad about it because there's nothing you can say or do that they aren't already thinking themselves because of the shame that's put on people with disabilities or just neurodivergences or whatever, just on an institutional level, I think it's really hard. At the end of the day, it's really difficult to tell whether someone is fully on board and understanding until you've been together for a little while.
Even then, sometimes, you don't know until you're in conflict and you find out that this is something that they've resented about you this whole time, that the best thing you can do is just explain what your needs are and find people who will accommodate that. If people shame you or guilt-trip you or try and make you apologize for this, then they're not the person for you.
Jase: I want to just reiterate the idea of giving them resources, not just yourself, offloading some of the burden of needing to explain it yourself. Like Dedeker mentioned, there's some books out there. As far as what specific ones-- again, what was the name of the one you
Dedeker: The one that was really helpful for me was Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder by Dr. Shari Manning.
Jase: Yes. I've learned a lot through Dedeker reading that book and just sharing what she's been learning through that as well. That kind of resource makes a lot of sense because you are not having to take on all of that work yourself. At the same time, like Dedeker mentioned, checking in and explaining, which parts of this do track and make sense for you and which parts don't. We've talked about that before. If someone is new to polyamory and you just say, "Read some books," they might have a totally different idea of what that means based on just reading some other people's books than what that means for you.
Just be sure to get into that. I will say that having those resources is helpful. Again, as the person who has been a partner or friend to people with bipolar specifically, that again just socially, we're taught to take a lot of responsibility for our partner's emotional states. I would bet that that's part of what's going on here is that your partner is reacting poorly to it because they've been taught that how you're feeling is their responsibility or their fault, you could say in a more intense way I guess, but that it's their responsibility to get you out of it or that it must be their fault that you're in that state in the first place.
That unlearning for them can be really challenging. Having resources outside of just yourself I think will really help that. That is a tough thing to learn because e're not taught that. We're not taught how to have that sense of, what's the difference between something I should be helping with or something where you need time to deal with this your own way or whatever that is. It's hard and I'm still working on it myself.
Emily: When we have friends, sometimes we give them grace more than we do our partners. If somebody cancels plans, for instance, we may be like, "Oh, that's okay," with our friends and to feel more strongly about it when it is a partner, when they're having a moment where they say, "I simply can't do this right now," or, "I need to bail out," or, "I need to go cry on the corner," or something along those lines. I think from the experience that I've had with this friend who I've had for a very long time and we've had ups and downs and OCD is what she is diagnosed with.
I think I've learned a lot regarding this friendship in terms of my own, I guess, ideas about how a friend can still be really important in my life, even if it doesn't look exactly the way that all of my other friendships do. Even if there are times when I'm like, "Wow, this person is flaky," but actually they're just going through something and they can't be there in the way that I think that they maybe should be or whatever it is.
As somebody who may date somebody who is neurodivergent in any way, just realize, give your partner that grace. Like Leanne said, if you don't, then maybe the two of you aren't right for each other or maybe that's not something that the two of you should be doing together because I think we need to be understanding of whatever it is that's going on.
Dedeker: We're good to move on.
Emily: Our last question is, "Wondering if you could talk a bit about being a racially minoritized person in the polyam community and point to some resources for the White people who want to date us asking as someone who is neither Black or White and finds that most resources and voices talking about this are generally one or the other. Keen to hear from another person outside of the Black, White binary that it gets made out to be sometimes." I think this was specifically for you, Leanne.
Leanne: Apart from myself, there's a couple of other Asian polyamorous creators or just creators who aren't Black or White in the community on Instagram. Probably the most well-known one is @polyamorouswhileasian also known as Michelle Hy. I think she's been on your show before.
Dedeker: Yes. She's fantastic.
Leanne: There's also Sydney Rae Chin who goes by Sexy Soup Dumplings. There's also jayda_kissed. They're all Asian creators who are polyamorous. As far as I know, they don't post that often, but what they have posted has been good. I confess it isn't really a topic that I've covered a huge amount on my page for a couple of reasons. I think that race is such a complex topic. As someone from the UK with a majority US audience, I think the dynamics of race are-- Obviously, there's still racism and stuff like that in the UK, but it's from a very different lens than in the US. I feel like what I have to share is not necessarily relatable to the vast majority of my audience.
It's not something that I've posted a lot of content about publicly anyway. I think that a lot of the advice online around dating culture, particularly fetishization of Asian, particularly Asian women, and the history behind that colonial, is relevant across the board whether you are monogamous or polyamorous. I think the only thing that I would have to add to what's already out there in just dating world generally, it can be-- In the same way that it might be a red flag if I as an Asian person meet someone who has only ever had Asian girlfriends, often then I'm like, "I might want to investigate why that is." It's a yellow flag.
In the same way, if someone also has another partner or multiple partners presently who are the same race as me, then that might be something to have a conversation about because sometimes it's racial fetishization, sometimes it's just the spaces that you run in. Maybe you like this person, an activist or whatever and there's a lot of people of color in the space that they happen to meet. I think it's complex.
I agree that there isn't that much information out there outside of the Black-White binary binary. I've been thinking more about posting more content about my experiences around that, but that will take a while because it's also just a generally emotionally difficult topic, and I don't want to force myself to talk about a topic just because I'm Asian.
Dedeker: Sure. I was going to hop on the bandwagon just to say I think your voice would be really appreciated on that topic mostly because the fact that, in my opinion, I think it's helpful for American audiences to be exposed to non-UScentric takes on various topics, because seriously, we can get bogged down in the weeds and in a very American way can project like, "Oh, if this is how it is here, it must be like this everywhere."
Or, "If these are the problems here, they must be the same problems everywhere," and can really erase a lot of the experiences of people who are just not from the US or erase a lot of what problems are aren't there. I would put in a vote for whenever that's the right time for that, I think it would be a valuable voice in the space.
Leanne: I appreciate that. Thank you.
Emily: This has been great, Leanne. If anyone out there doesn't know where they can find more of you and your work, can you tell our listeners?
Leanne: Yes. You can find me across multiple social media platforms. I'm most active on Instagram @polyphiliablog, P-O-l-Y-P-H-I-L-I-A-B-L-O-G. You can also find me on Facebook, Twitter, or X, or whatever the hell they're calling it now. I'm also on YouTube. I've got a Patreon. I also do private peer support. I'm a therapist in training as well. In the meantime, peer support is what I offer to individuals, couples, and groups around the world. Oh, and I'm also on TikTok.