470 - "I want foreplay to start at breakfast."
This week, our Patreon question is:
For context, my partner (32M) and I (25F) are both currently polysaturated at 1 after going through some tough life stuff.
For the last 6 months it's been feeling like there's been a lack of non-sexual interactions between myself and my partner. I feel as though I've tried to keep up with doing these myself because I genuinely enjoy it - things like random gentle touching, offering to make breakfast, just generally be considerate in ways that's more than just being friends. But my partner doesn't seem to be innately the same way - and although did these things early on, it quickly dwindled.
When he attempts to initiate sex, it's often after generally having very limited interaction with each other so far that day.
His "initiation" typically includes things like greeting me with objectifying comments, touching only areas like my butt or chest, showing me he's hard by pressing himself on me, and making other verbal insinuations.
Going from virtually no interaction or seemingly platonic interaction and straight into a very sexual interaction like that, almost turns me off even more and especially couple with the way that it takes a while for him to actually back off when I say no.
But I've noticed that times there IS more "lovey" interaction sprinkled throughout the day, tiny acts of service, non-sexual but nice touching, etc., that I feel MUCH more inclined to respond well to his initiations.
I have had conversations with him about this and will continue to, but there doesn't seem much change or consistent change.
I truly feel like the phrase "foreplay starts at breakfast" really hits home for me as one aspect of my issues with his initiation style, but I'm having a lot of trouble actually coming up with concrete examples of what this can look like. I'm hoping that being able to better define it can help me better identify my own needs and also better communicate those needs to him.
Two eggs with a side of foreplay please
Transcript
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Dedeker: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we are answering a question from one of our Patreon supporters. If you want the opportunity to ask a question on the show, become one of our patrons at patreon.com/multiamory. We'll be doing this for the next few months, releasing an extra episode each week answering a listener question, and we are really excited to hear from all of you about what you think about this new format.
Jase: Before we get started, we want to let you know that we've spent a lot of time studying relationship communication, but we are not mind readers and we don't have the answers to everything in the universe. Our advice is based solely on the limited information we have from these questions as well, so we may have to do some guessing. So please take all of it with a grain of salt and find what there is for you to learn from it.
Emily: Every situation is unique, so we encourage you to use your own judgment and seek professional help if needed. Ultimately, you are the only true expert on your own life and feelings, and your decisions are your own. The question has been edited for time and clarity.
Dedeker: And here's this week's question. What does the phrase foreplay starts at breakfast mean to you? And what examples would you give of this? For context.
Jase: Sorry. Can we just acknowledge like, wow, out the gate, really hitting us, hitting us with the questions.
Dedeker: I'm, I'm, I'm sucked right into this breakfast foreplay. I'm so intrigued.
Jase: It's a very good cold open for this novel. Yeah.
Dedeker: For context, my partner and I are both currently polysaturated at one after going through some tough life stuff. For the last six months, it's been feeling like there's been a lack of non sexual interactions between myself and my partner.
I feel as though I've tried to keep up with doing these things myself because I genuinely enjoy it. Things like random gentle touching, offering to make breakfast, just generally being considerate in ways that's more than just being friends. But my partner doesn't seem to be innately the same way.
And although he did these things early on, it quickly dwindled. When he attempts to initiate sex, it's often after generally having very limited interaction with each other that day. His initiation typically includes things like greeting me with objectifying comments, touching only areas like my butt or chest, showing me he's hard by pressing himself on me and making other verbal insinuations.
Going from virtually no interaction or seemingly platonic interaction and straight into a very sexual interaction like that almost turns me off even more. And especially coupled with the way that it takes a while for him to actually back off when I say no. But I've noticed that the times where there is more lovey interaction sprinkled day, Tiny acts of service, non sexual but nice touching, that I feel much more inclined to respond well to his initiations. I've had conversations with him about this, but there doesn't seem to be much change or consistent change.
I truly feel like the phrase foreplay starts at breakfast really hits home for me as one aspect of my issues with his initiation style, but I'm having a lot of trouble actually coming up with concrete examples of what this can look like. I'm hoping that being able to better define it can help me better.
Better identify my own needs and also better communicate those needs to him. And that is sent in from two eggs with a side of foreplay, please. But how'd you want your eggs?
Jase: Good sign off.
Like, they started strong, they ended strong.
Emily: I don't because I've never had an egg in my life.
Dedeker: Right. Emily's never had an egg. You've had plenty of foreplay though. I hope.
Emily: Yeah, so I just wanted to ask that question right off the gate. Have the two of you ever foreplayed at breakfast or like right when you got up? Because this morning I got up and my partner was like, I was thinking about that thing that happened last night and that was really hot. And like, that felt like foreplay at breakfast. That was right out the gate.
Dedeker: Was there at least like a tofu scramble present?
Emily: I was still in bed, so no, not at that moment in time.
Jase: Yeah, the response would be like, that's nice, honey, now could you go make my tofu scramble? I think that's the
Emily: Now I'm hungry. Yeah, but sure, sure, breakfast foreplay.
Jase: Definitely a lot here. I think that that phrase, foreplay begins at breakfast. The context where I've heard it before is kind of in what they're talking about here, where it's like you don't just get to do foreplay right before you want to have sex, you need to be nurturing this sense of connection and flirtiness and showing appreciation for your partner.
Basically, all the time, you know, essentially keeping a little bit more of that going on so that it isn't this sort of jarring thing when suddenly it switches into sex mode. That's generally the context where I've heard that expression before, and I think the question asker here, like, it fits perfectly for what's going on here.
Dedeker: I, I read through this question a couple times. I was almost convinced that myself from a past relationship wrote this question because it, it mirrored my experience in a, in a particular relationship that I'm thinking of so exactly.
Emily: Maybe it was your past self.
Dedeker: Maybe it-
Jase: Did you time travel?
Emily: That's cool.
Jase: Two eggs with a side of foreplay on this phrase about foreplay starting at
Dedeker: breakfast.
So that's new to me. Yeah, have you, Jase? Yeah, no,
Jase: I've absolutely heard that unless I'm able to talk to my younger self now and teach them that phrase and then they went back in time and then wrote this question in and I'm sure that we've probably stumbled into some paradoxes at some point.
Emily: Indeed.
Jase: Sure we've created a time paradox and destroyed the quantum state of the universe.
Emily: Uh oh, get ready everyone.
Jase: Yeah, yeah, prepare for that. All right, there's definitely a lot to get into here. We're going to take a quick moment to just say, hey, do you have a question that you would like to get answered on this show?
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Emily: And we're back. Now, sometimes I kind of think that love languages maybe aren't really a thing. Although, think that they can be helpful, for sure. And this sounds a little bit like maybe mismatched love languages, or one person's love language is super, super high on touch, and the other person's maybe a bit higher on things like acts of service or, quality time, something along those lines.
And part of being a really good partner is being able to acknowledge the differences there and figure out how to allow and give maybe an act of service, even if you are a touch person, because you know that that is important to your partner. So I would say, absolutely, having conversations, like they already are, about this sort of thing.
But, um, I would be fine being like, Hey, don't really feel comfortable having sex with you until we can figure out a way to have more of a meeting of a mind or come to the middle in this a bit more, where perhaps you can do some nice things for me in the middle of the day, or we can have an interaction that doesn't involve sex in any way or touch in any way, or just is kind of sweet and romantic. Or, we can go out to dinner. Or you can make me a bagel. Any of those things.
Dedeker: So specific.
Emily: That doesn't involve, pressing yourself up against me.
Dedeker: Yes, so I want to bring in the gas brake metaphor, which is not original to me. I think this, this floats around when talking about these kinds of, you know, sometimes desire mismatch or initiation mismatch quite frequently. And I think what is helpful here is that this question asker knows what pushes on their gas pedal.
Like they have that information. Sometimes people come to these situations where they're like, I don't even really know what gets me in the mood, but I know it's not that, you know, I know it's not the thing that you do. The things that you're doing are slamming on my brakes and making it harder for me to get in the mood for sex.
So first I just want to point out that it's really good that this person already has that information. And it sounds like maybe their partner has that information both about them and about himself as well, right? And, gosh, there's so many different pieces to jump into here, but. What I want to say is that I think, Jase, you were the one who taught me, or you were talking to me about this years ago, about how when we go through the arousal process, like the physiological process of getting aroused, something that happens in our brain is that our sensitivity to disgust gets turned down because if you think about it, sometimes sex can be kind of disgusting, like really.
Emily: of it, yes,
Dedeker: of it can be a little bit gross from a certain perspective and it's like our brain kind of has to turn down our sensitivity to like certain smells and sights and sensations and can sometimes catalyze them into, ooh, that's actually exciting, I like that. And then sometimes after you have an orgasm or after you're not aroused anymore, It's less appealing to think about doing that same thing,
And when I was in the relationship where this dynamic was happening, It was a lightbulb moment for me to realize that, when my partner is already in this arousal state, his judgment about what's appropriate or not about what is disgusting or not is altered, And so he is approaching me in a particular state where if I was also in that aroused state, maybe I'd be able to meet that initiation with that same kind of excitement, but because I'm not, It's turning me off, and it's making me feel bad, and it's making me feel disgusting, right?
Emily: So, just tell him that.
Dedeker: Well, well, yes, right? So, so that can be, that can be part of it, right? It's just realizing that literally your brain chemicals are in different places, and you're experiencing things with a different lens on it. in episode 457, , and you should go check that out.
It's called Creating Lasting Sexual Connections with Emily Nagoski, but her talking about how if you're constantly having to push through. not feeling good when it comes to sex, like that's not good for you, so it shouldn't be consistently that like you're feeling objectified in a bad way and feeling kind of icky in a bad way all the time.
But if you feel like you can collaborate with your partner with like, hey, I'm not where you're at yet from an arousal level, but like, let's get me there and then we can have fun, that I think that's really important.
Jase: Yeah, I want to come back to something from this. We're saying that this partner did more of these just kind of nice things throughout the day earlier on in the relationship, but in the last six months or so has stopped doing them. So, you know, they mentioned things like just the random gentle touching or offering to make breakfast, or just being nice.
quote, generally being considerate in ways that's more than just being friends.
I do think that's a piece worth looking at there too. And boy, this kind of mismatches is really challenging because it seems like On the one hand, maybe there's something in his life that's gotten busier or more distracting or something.
And so he's felt like he's just kind of had less, less of that on his mind of like, Oh, I should do these sweet things. Or maybe in his mind, he feels like you're kind of out of that courting phase. And so that's the thing you don't do anymore. I've definitely run into that in relationships before, being on the receiving end of that sometimes where a partner.
Just kind of stops, I don't know, I guess like doing things to kind of lead up to being in the mood for sex? Because they're sort of like, well yeah, I did that early on, but I don't know, I don't really want to keep doing that. And, you know, that could potentially be a very serious problem, or something that you can talk about and solve, and that's going to depend a little bit on how that communication goes, but I do think that's worth just sort of acknowledging there.
I also get the sense from this that this relationship Hasn't been going on that long yet. I don't know that for sure. I'm just kind of guessing that from some of the context here, but it also seems like this could have coincided with exiting some of that NRE. In this relationship which both might be leading to you in general, feeling less kind of aroused and excited by this relationship together with their, maybe feeling less of this kind of drive or enthusiasm to do lots of these little things for you throughout the day.
I don't think any of those are excuses for behavior that's not considerate for a partner, but they could be reasons going on and things to explore and talk about. Again, I'm guessing a little bit here at this point, but something to to think about here. I love what Dedeker was saying about just like you're in different mental states and it sounds like he's able to have some time before he's trying to initiate sex where he's clearly been thinking about it or he's been fantasizing about it, thinking about sex, being excited about it, and so he's got his arousal already going on.
Maybe he's also someone who gets aroused more quickly than you, that's possible, but I would bet He's, he's had some time where he's thinking about these things and like wanting to have that kind of experience whereas for you it kind of catches you by surprise and there's no lead up and so yeah like if I'm focused on working and someone comes up and like gently kisses my neck my reaction isn't oh yeah it's like oh what the fuck like that tickle like get away from me like I'm trying to-
Dedeker: Oh, well, okay. Well, all right. I want to validate. Yes, your focus definitely will be taken in by work. You're never that aggressive.
Jase: I mean, sure, this is the inner voice that will sometimes happen is kind of this like, ah!
Emily: Cheers.
Jase: I don't think you ever do that to me, by the way. I feel like you, you're more likely to take a soft approach when you see I'm focused on something instead of it's, it's like when someone tries to do that, like, Oh, I'm going to like sneak up and surprise you with a little thing.
Like sometimes that can be jarring. My point is just that it's jarring if you're not in the mindset to receive it. I'm being, I'm exaggerating a little bit here in terms of my reaction, but, but yeah, that, that it can be jarring. And I think one thing to consider is. Is it possible to open up that communication about him fantasizing a little bit earlier on in the day before he's all the way at that point, and kind of bring you into that?
Like, for you to be texting about it or flirting a little bit earlier in the day is one thing to consider there. Coupled with that thing of like, you can't just walk in and do that. Like, just kind of being really clear on it. It's like, this just doesn't work. We're gonna have to find another way. Or this just isn't going to work.
I do think there has to be a certain amount of like, being clear, like Dedeker was saying, like being clear, be gentle if you want to, but like, be clear, don't be gentle and also wishy washy, which is where a lot of us tend to go when we're trying to be polite and nice.
Emily: I like that you brought up the fact that maybe the two of them have, in their own various ways, maybe not necessarily taken the relationship for granted, but just gone out of that idea that you have to necessarily, like, do specific things for your partner because the NRE is fated or it's just been long enough that you think, oh, I don't have to do all of those things that I once had to do for a partner.
And, um, I mean, as somebody who has absolutely been on the receiving and the giving end of feeling as though I don't have to work as hard anymore, that's a really difficult and kind of shitty place to be in, on both ends, and so I definitely encourage you to Try to just go the extra mile, even the extra half mile, and that may just mean yeah, we're going to set aside some time to talk every day or to connect in a way that is other than physical so that we can continue to kind of go there with one another, do a nice thing for one another, maybe give each other a foot rub or something while You are talking about your day.
Just kind of platonic or, or sweet touch that doesn't necessarily involve and now I am going to jump your bones.
Jase: I think a big part of this is that your partner needs to get the importance of this and assuming that he is willing to, which maybe he's not in which case. It's probably not a good relationship to stay in. It was fun while it lasted, but I think it may have run its course. I know that sounds harsh, but just, I just want to be real.
If your partner is not willing to really seriously consider this and make some changes. Again, it doesn't have to mean they're a terrible, horrible villain, but it's not a good relationship either. But on the other side is maybe he needs to realize that this is actually pretty serious. And I think sometimes it's easy to not realize that because that's not how sexual interaction works.
Goes in porn, or even in a lot of movies that are not specifically porn, it's kind of like all focuses on the NRE, where everything's spontaneous, everything just happens, everything's like, you're so hot, you walk in the room, say the like, one thing, and they're all over you because you're into each other.
Like, that's kind of the mythos that's built up around this, and sometimes it takes a little bit of a slap in the face. Metaphorically speaking, I don't condone violence in your relationships, but like a metaphorical slap in the face to kind of be like, no, actually, this is, this is serious. And this is a problem. And so depending on how that communication's gone so far, that also might be something to look at.
Dedeker: Well I want to, I want to catalyze your comment and leave it on a more positive note that beca because this is so important and so serious, it means that there is a really great opportunity in here to of your sexual connection in a fantastic direction. Just thinking about the future of your relationship, that there's great opportunities here to sit down and really get curious about each other, really get curious about, you know, if you want to use the gas pedal and brake pedal metaphor, really get curious about, what are the things that makes him want to reach out to you sexually?
What are the things that make you want to reach out to him sexually? You know, is it about being close? Is it about just being horny and wanting an orgasm? Is it about wanting to be seen as sexy and, and wanting affection? You know, like this could be a very, very rich topic and it should stay a rich topic.
Really, like you shouldn't be having just one conversation and then done, like as long as this relationship continues, you should keep coming back to this topic of sex and what you do enjoy about your sexual connection and what you want to be a part of your sexual connection. But like this, this just could be a really exciting opportunity to create a really wonderful foundation moving forward.
If both of you are able to come to the table.