514 - My Metamour is Convinced I Hate Her. Help! Listener Q&A
Today’s listener questions
The questions we’re tackling today from our Supercast subscribers are:
“I’ve (he/him) been seeing a girl for about half a year. She’s got a primary partner and a couple of other “minor flirts”, I’ve grown to be her second most involved relationship. We see each other about once a week and always have a great time.
I've felt recently that my feelings have become very strong and I almost have to stop myself from splurting out "I love you". With those feelings I've also noticed that I've had moments of sadness over things we will probably never do together because of me not being her primary partner. She's made it clear that she doesn't want our relationship to "compete" with her primary. I've also had some dark thoughts, wishing for their relationship to end etc. Which I'm not proud of and would never act on in any kind of way of course. I like my meta and want the best for them too.
This is my first poly relationship that's gotten this "serious" so dealing with this lack of relationship escalator is kinda new. I really don't want the escalator, I want to prioritize myself first. I don't want to be a primary partner. I just want… more, but not too much haha. I feel afraid of bringing this up or showing the full extent of my feelings for fear of being too much or giving her the wrong impression of my intentions.
I'm hoping this will be a long-term thing and maybe it'll keep growing and getting "more", maybe it won't. Any tips on how to accept and enjoy this for what it is, don't be sad over what it isn't right now and just let it lead where it leads?
Secretly swooning in Scandinavia”
“Dear Multiamory Team,
my partner and I had been together in a poly relationship for half a year when she met her second partner. My partner and I met once or twice a week. When she met her new partner, the two of them quickly became very close and met frequently (3-4 times a week) and went on vacation. My metamour also quickly joined my partner's circle of friends. That suited me quite well. Since I was writing my thesis at the time and have many friends, I was happy for my partner that she was getting the attention that I couldn't give her on my own. At first it went very well until my metamour and I met.
The three of us met in a cafe, with our partner. The meeting didn't go well – we are very different and have different communication styles. They were very angry with me for touching our partner in front of her. Our second meeting also went badly, and even a clarifying conversation didn't help. My metamour was convinced that I didn't want anything good for her. I couldn't say anything to make her believe that I only wanted the best for their relationship.
After half a year of back and forth, my partner broke up with me to have a non-monogamous relationship with my metamour. When we broke up, she said that there was no right decision for her, that she had to get out of the hinge position and that she felt torn between us.
That was half a year ago now. My now ex-partner and I hadn't been in contact for a long time and have now met again. We still love each other and cried a lot when we met. We both want to have each other back in our lives. How intense that can be depends on the needs of my metamour. I notice a lot of resistance and panic in me about meeting my metamour because I feel so hurt by her behavior. If I want to have contact with my now ex-partner, I have to build a good relationship with my metamour.
Can the broken relationship between my metamour and me be solved? What could a solution look like? What can I demand of my ex-partner and my metamour and how can I protect myself in this process?
Roxy”
“It all started when my partner Daryl took on a new partner and had less time for me. So I went looking for new connections. I found a great new guy, Jay, but it's a slow burn. Now my ex, Bob reconnected with me & I'm smitten all over again.
I find myself leaving space for any availability Daryl has because he's my strongest connection, but I also feel frustrated he took on a new partner and it became a reduction of time with me. Bob and I are picking right back up where we left off, but his life is different now and I worry about life compatibility. Jay could grow, but it's early days and he is already stretching himself by adding me to his life with 3 other partners, but he has lots of time to give.
I don't want to disappoint them, but I’m more worried about myself in pushing my own boundaries that cause me to reduce time with myself because I miss them. Even keeping up chatting with all of them I now feel my phone never stops.
Oh, did I mention I also have a NP & kids and a committed career? How did I manage to be in love with 4 people? Am I doomed to just blow this all up as it will be impossible to manage?
Crazily Over Committed in Canada”
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Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we are back with another question-and-answer episode from you, our lovely listeners. This week, we are discussing several things such as how to handle mono-normative thoughts while being in love with a new partner. Is it possible to repair a broken metamour relationship? And how to navigate life when you are polysaturated with too many partners. If you're interested in learning about our communication tools that we undoubtedly will reference many times on this episode, check out our book Multiamory: Essential Tools for Modern Relationships, which you can get at multiamory.com/book or wherever fine books are sold.
Dedeker: We've spent a lot of time studying healthy relationship communication, but we are not mind readers. Our advice is based solely on the limited information that is sent to us, so please take everything with a grain of salt. Remember that everybody's situation is unique. We encourage you to use your own judgment, seek professional help if needed, and also these questions have been edited for time and clarity.
Emily: Let us get into the first question of the day, which is how to handle mono-normative thoughts while being head over heels for someone with a primary partner. Now, the context for this is I've, he/him, been seeing a girl for about half a year. She's got a primary partner and a couple of other minor flirts, "I've grown to be your second most involved relationship." We see each other about once a week and always have a great time. I felt recently that my feelings have become very strong, and I almost have to stop myself from splurting out, "I love you."
With those feelings, I've also noticed that I've had moments of sadness over things we will probably never get to do together because of me not being her primary partner. She's made it clear that she doesn't want our relationship to compete with her primary. I've also had some dark thoughts wishing for their relationship to end, et cetera, which I'm not proud of and would never act on in any kind of way, of course. I like my meta and I want the best for them too. This is my first poly relationship that's gotten this serious, so dealing with this lack of relationship escalator is new.
I really don't want the escalator, I want to prioritize myself first. I don't want to be a primary partner, I just want more, but not too much. I feel afraid of bringing this up or showing the full extent of my feelings for fear of being too much or giving her the wrong impression of my intentions. I'm hoping this will be a long-term thing, and maybe it'll keep growing and getting more, maybe it won't. Any tips on how to accept and enjoy this for what it is? Don't be sad over what it isn't right now, and just let it lead where it leads. Signed, Secretly swooning in Scandinavia.
Jase: Very good name.
Emily: Yes, very good name.
Dedeker: Secret swooning.
Jase: Secret swooning. Boy, I just want to start out by saying first of all that I appreciate you being brave enough to acknowledge and admit those dark thoughts that you had about wishing their relationship would end, but I'm also glad that you're aware, one, that you don't want to act on that and do wish the best for them. I think that's certainly an area that hopefully you will not have those sorts of feelings come up as much, especially as you work on this for yourself because that's not a great place to be in having those sorts of thoughts and feelings come up because even if you're not actively trying to act on that, it might still be influencing some of your behavior and at the very least, making you feel worse.
I definitely think that's something that hopefully processing this can change.
Dedeker: I think the big-- what? Elephant? Maybe it's not as big as an elephant. What's not as big as an elephant in a room?
Jase: Rhinoceros.
Dedeker: Rhinoceros. A rhinoceros is so big.
Emily: That's so pretty big.
Dedeker: cougar. The cougar in the room.
Emily: How about a cheetah?
Jase: Well, okay, now we're talking about something else.
Emily: Interesting connotations we got.
Dedeker: The cheetah in the room.
Emily: There you go.
Dedeker: This line about how she's made it clear that she doesn't want our relationship to "compete with her primary." I think that's an entry point for a lot more negotiation, discussion, and asking questions. It's unclear in this question has this already been discussed. Are there very clear lines drawn up around things? For instance, like we're never going to spend more than one day a week together. We're never going to live together, or I'm never going to introduce you to my family. I'm just thinking about examples that I think the ways these things tend to play out when someone really wants to maintain a hierarchy and not have another relationship compete with an existing one.
If that's not been really clearly drawn up, I think this is a great place to ask some questions. I think that this conversation can happen in a way that doesn't give across an impression of being too much or being too needy or things like that. I think it's okay to express, "Hey, I really like you, and I'm getting a lot of feelings for you, and I just want to talk about our relationship."
Whether it's you whipping out the good old relationship anarchy smorgasbord to have a conversation about what's actually on the table or not or just asking an open-ended question like, "Hey, you said this thing early on about not wanting our relationship to compete. What does that actually mean to you? In a very literally binding sense, what does that literally mean to you in real life?"
Jase: Oh, I think that's a great starting point for that question. I think that might also help us get into a little bit of what is it that you're specifically feeling like you're struggling with not having. Is it just these external markers of moving in together that maybe she didn't put a strict limit on that? If she lives with another partner already that's more established, yes, that's probably not going to happen with you, or at least not for much longer than it maybe would happen otherwise. I guess it does get to that question of like, one, what does competing mean for her, but then for you, what does connecting mean? What does meaningful mean in a relationship?
Asking those questions and then trying to get to that heart of like if I can't have that symbol of living together, what would I get from living together? Is there some other way I can foster more of that feeling in this relationship with her help like bring her in on this once you get some clarity on what it is that would help this feel special to you and help you enjoy it while keeping in mind, yes, some of this might be that monogamy hangover of just, "Oh, but I want all these markers because if it's important, and we have a good connection, that means I should be doing these things, and if I'm not, it means this is failing somehow."
I know I've definitely struggled with that in certain relationships in the past where I'm just so excited and want this to be meaningful and often in pursuing that, is when I've screwed those ones up the worst for myself personally at least.
Emily: Yes, and along those lines, I would urge you question asker to move away from this idea of compete in general because I think that the reality of the situation is that this is about you and your partner, not about your metamour at all. I do think so many of us tend to look at people's other relationships as something that we have to compete with in a variety of ways. Instead of focusing on that, focus on all of the amazing things that you get to do and be and create in terms of this relationship with your partner, and exactly what Jase and Dedeker have been saying about what does that mean to you? What are things that we can look forward to together?
Even what are specific milestones that we can look forward to together like, "I would love to travel with you someday. I would love to meet some of your friend group. I would like to maybe meet a sibling or maybe even a parent at one point if that is on the table potentially." Other people in your life that are really meaningful to you, I think that that can be a huge, exciting step to take with a new person. Even just an acknowledgment of certain feelings of tenderness, of exploring what all of that means to the two of you. Again, unless somebody else is putting parameters on your relationship, none of this has to do with your metamour.
I would just urge, especially when you're feeling this way about, "I'm wishing that they end up breaking up or something, and that's really hard for me," that's understandable that that's difficult and that's a conflicting emotion to have. In order to move yourself away from that, I would focus on the things that you can change and the things that you can do with your partner which don't include your metamour.
Jase: Yes, I think that is a note worth hitting too, that it can be easy to think about any perceived limitations about your partner's availability or how intimate or entangled they want to get with you and associate it with that metamour of saying, "Oh, well, it's because that person makes these demands of them, or because they have that relationship, they're less available to me in these ways." It's avoiding putting the responsibility on your partner, and you put it on this external third party.
One, that's just factually not true. The choices that your partner makes in her relationship with you are purely her own. Sure, there's going to be influence from other relationships and other people in her life, but ultimately, she's the only one making that difference. If that relationship did end, doesn't necessarily mean that you two would get the relationship that you want. Even if she wasn't in that other relationship, that still might not mean that. She might not be the person that you're so in love with if it weren't for that relationship.
Taking a little bit of this holistic view can help with it. Now, you mentioned that you're in this relationship for about half a year, so that means you're right in the thick of the NRE chemicals, this sort of feeling of withdrawal when you're not with this person. This is all just natural, normal stuff that's happening chemically in your brain, but it makes not getting what you want-
Emily: Worse
Jase: -hurt a little extra. It makes it worse, yes. Keeping that in mind can help give a little perspective of saying this is not some kind of cosmic message telling you you need to be pursuing this, but it's chemistry. It's this thing that's going on to help you not let a relationship flounder, I guess.
Dedeker: I think the timing makes sense, though. You're in the thick of NRE, but it's been long enough that you can start to have these questions about security come up.
Jase: Yes, that makes a lot of sense.
Dedeker: These questions like where are we actually heading here? Are you actually going to be an attachment relationship or not? I think this also sounds normal to be feeling this way and having these questions come up around this time.
Emily: Definitely.
Jase: Absolutely.
Emily: Yes, and all of this is completely normal. I think I wrestle with this in my relationships as well and questioning where are we headed. What are we doing? Especially if there's more than one relationship involved and one seems to feel more primary than yours, then, yes, it's like, "Well, I don't have these normal benchmarks of where it's going, the trajectory of the relationship, and so it's a little bit more amorphous." That is an opportunity for the two of you to really explore and map out and get creative with what is this going to look like.
Maybe it's not going to be traditional at all, but it still can be really fun and unique to us and get excited for those possibilities as opposed to placing these ideas, as you were saying, this sort of monogamous centric ideas of what makes a relationship special or not because it doesn't necessarily have to look that way in order for it to still be really special and meaningful to the both of you.
Jase: Yes, and just do what you can to, in a weird way, I guess I'd say enjoy the suffering a little bit because this is a special time that you only get during this first year or so of that feeling like, "I'm never going to get enough. No matter how much of them I get, it's never going to feel like enough."
Dedeker: This is where all but the poetry comes from.
Emily: Yes.
Jase: Exactly, exactly.
Emily: It's funny because before we started recording today, Jase was like, "Am I ever going to feel that again for anyone?" Because it's been a minute, I guess, since you felt--
Jase: I know. Yes, it's been a while since I've had that NRE feeling, but it is a really exciting thing. Depending on where your head and heart are at right now while you're listening to this episode, that's either going to land for you like, "Yes, you know what? I'm going to try to feel how this feels in my body and enjoy it some, even though it also sucks," but to appreciate it a little bit and ride on some of that excitement and maybe write some poetry or some hit pop songs or something, or you might say, "Jase, shut up, this sucks. I don't want you to tell me to enjoy this feeling," and that's also fair.
Dedeker: Yes. Well, thank you, Secretly swooning in Scandinavia. Don't rush too fast to get rid of your swooning. I think it is a really precious and beautiful thing.
Jase: Sweetly swooning in Scandinavia.
Dedeker: Aaw, I like that.
Emily: That's lovely.
Jase: Yes, love it.
Dedeker: Swoondinavia
Jase: Swoondinavia. All right, thank you so much for your letter.
Dedeker: We're back, and we're going to dive straight into our next question. Can a broken metamour relationship be solved, and how can I protect myself in this process? My partner and I had been together in a poly relationship for half a year when she met her second partner. My partner and I met once or twice a week. When she met her new partner, the two of them quickly became very close and met frequently about three to four times a week, and also went on vacation.
My metamour quickly joined my partner circle of friends. That suited me quite well since I was writing my thesis at the time and have many friends, I was happy for my partner that she was getting the attention that I couldn't give her on my own. At first, it went very well until my metamour and I met. The three of us met in a café with our partner. The meeting didn't go well. We're very different and have different communication styles. They were very angry with me for touching our partner in front of her.
Our second meeting also went badly, and even a clarifying conversation didn't help. My metamour was convinced that I didn't want anything good for her. I couldn't say anything to make her believe that I only wanted the best for their relationship. After half a year of back and forth, my partner broke up with me to have a non-monogamous relationship with my metamour. When we broke up, she said that there was no right decision for her, that she had to get out of the hinge position, and that she felt torn between us.
That was half a year ago now. My now ex-partner and I hadn't been in contact for a long time, but have now met again. We still love each other, and we cried a lot when we met. We both want to have each other back in our lives. How intense that can be, depends on the needs of my metamour. I notice a lot of resistance and panic in me about meeting my metamour because I feel so hurt by her behavior. If I want to have contact with my now ex-partner, I have to build a good relationship with my metamour. Can the broken relationship between my metamour and me be solved? What could a solution look like?
What can I demand of my ex-partner and my metamour, and how can I protect myself in this process? That is sent in by Roxy.
Jase: Woo, boy, it's a lot going on there.
Dedeker: Yes, for sure.
Emily: That's a tough one.
Dedeker: Yes. I want to say this as compassionately as possible to everyone involved. Again, this is a situation where your partner is the one who broke up with you. Your partner is the one who made the choice to break up with you. Now, it sounds like there may have been some hurtful behavior from the metamour that may also need to be held accountable, but ultimately, your partner, I think, is the first person who needs to be held accountable for that.
If you want to have an ongoing relationship, whether that's a friendship or a queer-platonic relationship, or another romantic relationship again, I think if it were me, I'd be asking some very pointed questions of my ex-partner about what needs to happen or what do you think needs to happen so that this same toxic dynamic doesn't play out all over again. What are the things that you're going to do to make this better? What are the things that your partner's going to do to make this better? What are the things that I'm willing to do to try to make this better if you feel like it's worth the risk to try to get involved in this dynamic again?
Emily: Depending on the type of non-monogamy that you practice, I don't exactly see why the metamour needs to come into the conversation at all. A lot of people practice parallel polyamory and they just choose to not particularly engage with their metamour much at all. I don't think it's a bad idea to know who they are and to maybe have them in a list of contacts if you need to get a hold of them for some reason. I'm not exactly sure why they need to be a part of the equation, especially if it's just a new budding relationship.
Again, you want to be in each other's lives. You're not quite sure what the context of that is going to be. You're figuring it out. That seems like something very specific between the two of you and not necessarily has to do with your metamour at all. I guess that's also dependent on the type of relationship that the two of them have, and if they have some sort of agreement in place that, "Everybody needs to be vetted or go through me," which I think is a whole other can of worms. Who knows what's going on here? We only have the context that was provided to us.
I guess I would just question why the metamour relationship needs to be an issue at all unless you're just so keen on, "I want this person very deeply to like me and for it to be okay, and I don't feel like I can have a good relationship with this person unless a relationship with my metamour is somehow copacetic and amicable."
Jase: Yes. Dedeker, when you were reading the question, and you got to that line, "If I want to have contact with my now ex-partner, I have to build a good relationship with my metamour," that instantly, knee-jerk reaction I wanted to say, "Do you?" Like what Emily's getting at. Having an actively hostile relationship with a metamour sucks, that's not a good place to be, so if there's some way to patch that up, I think that can be helpful, but I do want to reiterate what Emily's saying. If you can get to a point of, yes, we're civil, we have a certain amount of mutual respect here, that's the end of it. We don't have to do group hangs altogether.
Clearly, it seemed like from that first interaction, that part of the conflict was just over how you each behave with your mutual partner when you're around each other, and maybe some different standards. Again, whatever their reasons are for that doesn't matter, but it does show you that this isn't compatible. This isn't a compatible situation for all of us to hang out together, and so I would say just don't.
Make that clear to your partner in a compassionate kind way of just, "They're not the person I want to have a relationship with. They're not the person that I have all these feelings for, it's you." Then to go back to what Dedeker was saying, at the same time, remember that your metamour didn't do any of this to you. Everything that happened in your relationship with your partner, was done by your partner.
Now, if that's because she's just doing whatever her other partner asks her to do without much consideration for your feelings, that sucks, but that's still her that made that decision. I do think that there's really no accountability that would need to be made from the metamour to you. It's like whatever, they can have their deal. Maybe they're a jerk to you, but they don't have to be your friend. They're not the one you're in a relationship with here, so I think that's worth acknowledging. Then just to throw a little hope in here because I feel like we've been a little bit down on this because I think we're all a little worried for you, we're a little scared for you getting into this situation.
Emily: Well, because we've been in some situations that are a little bit similar here where there's been one party in the situation that has caused a lot of strife and anger and resentment, and sometimes it's better to not engage with that person.
Jase: Yes. I think we've talked about this in the past, but in my relationship with Dedeker, there was a time where there was a lot of drama between me and her other partner, between me and my metamour. The big turning point there, was when I finally realized it wasn't about him at all, it was just about my relationship with Dedeker, and it made it so she and I could communicate more clearly about what's going on here, what do we expect from each other, what do we want from each other, and not this other person.
Obviously, she was still in the situation of needing to juggle those two things, but at least it made our interactions just about us and not trying to control something else which ultimately-- Dedeker, you can jump in and say how that felt, but I think that really improved things for us a lot.
Dedeker: I don't know, I think when that turning point happened, it was certainly uncomfortable for me, but I needed to be uncomfortable in that particular situation. It was a little bit of that uncomfortable being held accountable for your own actions and decision-making that I needed in order to actually make a choice and change things in that situation.
Emily: Well, Jase is here, and that other guy isn't.
Dedeker: Well, that's how that turned out.
Jase: There's that too, yes. What I was going to say too about hopefulness is that, yes, for your partner or for potentially your partner again, for this person, it can be difficult to be put in a situation where one partner really doesn't like the other. If you can remove yourself from that drama, like we were just saying, I think that can help in terms of your relationship with her.
The other thing to keep in mind is that if this metamour struggled because of whatever baggage they have, the same thing that makes us concerned for you is the thing that maybe they could lean on to get a little more confidence in this is that she chose them over you. That they've actually got a little bit of evidence here of like, "When push comes to shove, I was not the one tossed to the curb." Now, I think we're all a little concerned for you being the one who was treated that way, and that's why I think this focus on your relationship with this partner, and the accountability there, is so important.
I guess assuming that you two can patch that up and can move on and repair your own relationship with each other, and you don't try to be like, "I've got to hang out and be best buds with this metamour," maybe they'll be a little more chill this time around too because they might feel a little more secure in their relationship compared to before where they were the newer person. I don't know if that's how it'll play out, but just to say it's not exactly the same situation this time around.
Emily: To try to answer this question ultimately of can this broken relationship between my metamour and me be solved and then what can a solution look like, first, I do think that you need to look at what the relationship is going to actually be between you and your ex-partner, and what the trajectory of that is going to be. Get clear with them, "How much do I actually need to engage with this person? Because I would maybe prefer to not." Whether or not the two of you can actually mend this relationship, your metamour and you, I don't know that they're going to be willing to do that based on the things that you said to us in this letter, and I don't know if it's actually worth it to you.
Maybe it is because of circumstances or because your partner really wants that, or because you feel like I deeply need to have this person like me in order to be okay in this relationship. I think when you get down to brass tacks, is it really going to be worth it for the relationship with your ex and maybe partner again for you to have a good relationship with your metamour? I think that's the thing that needs to matter most.
Jase: Yes, like respectful is one thing and this sounds like you mean a close, good relationship, or close-ish. I do think it's worth asking why, like Emily said, because it's very possible that they just think, "Oh, that's how it should look, right? Isn't that the ideal that everyone gets along great with their metamours?" I'll tell you from experience, it's cool when you do.
It also adds other complications, and if they end up breaking up, can make it sadder for you because now you also have a weird situation with someone who became a friend. There's also some advantages to not, to just keeping that as a separate relationship. Again, ideally, with some mutual respect, but you don't need to be close. I think if you were waiting for someone to give you permission to not be close with this metamour, you have it from all three of us now.
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: Okay, but I'll give some permission on the other side, though, that maybe this person is in a position where they're just like, "I at least want to be able to do my 100% of trying to meet this person halfway." If that's important for you, I think that's totally fine. I think if you want to sit down and think about like, "What are the most important things that I want to say to this person to at least try to convey that I want us to be back on the same team and that I don't want to harbor any ill will and things like that?"
I don't know what it is for you, but you've got to think about what's the most important thing for me to say that I can say regardless of how it's received and that that still lands for me. It's not like I'm only going to feel good about saying this if it means that they completely turn around, and now they're my best friend and things like that. I think it's okay, you can extend the olive branch with the understanding that the olive branch may not be accepted necessarily. If it feels okay to you or feels important for you to be able to feel like you at least made the gesture, I think it's okay to do that.
Emily: That's a kind thing to do for sure. I just want to throw out that I don't know that it's going to be received in the way that you want it to from all of the things that you've told us, but maybe it will.
Jase: Maybe it will.
Emily: Maybe it will.
Jase: The situation is different now like I said, maybe it will.
Emily: Yes, it's changed, it's morphed, so, yes, maybe everyone involved has evolved. Who knows?
Jase: Yes, and maybe just doing that could be enough from your side for them to feel just comfortable enough to get that mutual respect that ideally we can have, but don't push it and try to be best buds because I've had people in my life, not even in a metamour situation, but just every time we try to get close to each other, it explodes. It's like something about our ways of communicating just don't work like we're just not compatible to hang out and be close. We can be casual friends who are in the same friend group, but it's like any time we try to get close, we'd end up pushing each other's buttons without meaning to and not from any ill will on either side in that case.
It's also possible that's happening too, and you don't need to force that.
Emily: Well, Roxy, we really hope that this goes well. We wish you the best, and if nothing else, we hope that your relationship with your ex maybe evolves and becomes something awesome again in your life. It sounds like you want that to be the case and that you both are committed to that, so good luck with all of that, and hope the metamour relationship becomes something that's okay as well.
Jase: Here we are at our third question of the day. I'm over-committed being attached to too many partners and I don't know how to balance it all. Help. It all started when my partner, Darryl took on a new partner and had less time for me, so I went looking for new connections. I found a great new guy, Jay, but it's a slow burn, and now my ex, Bob, reconnected with me, and I'm smitten all over again. I find myself leaving space for any availability Darryl has because he's my strongest connection, but I also feel frustrated he took on a new partner, and it became a reduction of time with me.
Bob and I are picking right back up where we left off, but his life is different now, and I worry about life compatibility. The relationship with Jay could grow, but it's early days, and he's already stretching himself by adding me to his life with three other partners of his own, but he does have a lot more time for me. I don't want to disappoint them, but I'm more worried about myself in pushing my own boundaries that cause me to reduce time with myself because I miss them. Even keeping up chatting with all of them, I now feel my phone never stops.
Oh, did I mention I also have a nesting partner, and kids, and a committed career? How did I manage to be in love with four people? Am I doomed to just blow this all up as it will be impossible to manage? This is from, Crazily overcommitted in Canada.
Dedeker: To be fair, I've accidentally ended up in a relationship with four people also.
Jase: Yes, it does happen.
Emily: I've done that before.
Dedeker: That has happened where I've paused and been like, "Oh, no, how did this happen? I really didn't intend for this to be the case." Yes, can relate to the panic.
Emily: How old were you, though? When did that happen? Did you have children?
Dedeker: I did not have children. I was 27 when that happened. No, I did not have children.
Jase: The whole question of how many partners is too many, I think is fascinating because it varies so widely by person. For me, between having a podcast which is like a relationship, I think, and having my relationship with Dedeker, and then having my day job, I feel often overwhelmed just with those things. A little bit of dating and fostering friendships on the side, I feel like I'm at capacity. Then I'll have friends who they're dating three, four people at the same time, and they're looking to date more, and they're feeling great about that.
I feel like it really can vary in terms of your energy level, and capacity, and how much each of those takes up, and whether you're getting enough energy back from all those interactions versus just spending it all.
Emily: Yes, for sure.
Jase: How's your energetic bank account? Is a thing relationship coaches would say.
Dedeker: Oh, well, speaking of things that people say, isn't it a thing that project managers talk about the whole time, quality, and cost triangle?
Jase: Oh, boy, probably.
Dedeker: You got to pick two of them. If there's something that's fast and cheap, it's not going to be good quality. If there's something that's good quality and cheap, it's not going to be very fast. If there's something that's high quality and also fast, it's not going to be cheap. I think that applies to relationships.
Jase: Goodness, maybe if you stretch those terms to be different-- I don't know. Actually, I'm not sure. I'm not convinced that applies here.
Dedeker: Well, I do think a lot of things are a negotiation of those three factors, many things in life, that certain things need to be tweaked and certain things need to be compromised on if they're going to be sustainable.
Emily: I definitely want to point out that this person is saying, "I don't want to disappoint them, but I'm more worried about myself in pushing my own boundaries that cause me to reduce time with myself because I miss them." It sounds like you want some alone time, which is completely understandable because you have children and a nesting partner as well. I bet you never get alone time pretty much. I do think you're answering your own question to a degree here that that's something that you do need to prioritize.
As difficult as that is, because oh, boy, is it difficult. Even with two partners, I felt like I was going back and forth constantly like I was needing to figure out time for this show, and maybe seeing other friends, and then, "Oh, yes, I have a job and I don't have kids either," but that felt really, really intense as well. I do think all of us go through moments in our lives where we are more or less able to juggle multiple people and multiple things more or less easily.
I think for the three of us who are sitting here, this is a time in our life where maybe it's a little bit more difficult to juggle a lot like four people, wow, and kids, yikes. When it comes to what you're doing, you're clearly doing it, it's impressive, but definitely try to prioritize yourself so that you don't get burnt out in those relationships. That means telling everyone, "I just need one night to freaking do whatever it is that-- I want to sit in the bath with a glass of wine and a good book, or play video games, or masturbate, or do whatever it is so that I can recharge and allow myself time to breathe a little bit. Otherwise, I'm going to get so overwhelmed that this is not going to work out long term, that I'm going to get burnt out and going to have to let somebody go," which it sounds like you don't really want to do.
Jase: To go to the questions asked at the end here. First one, "How did I manage to be in love with four people?" I don't think we can really answer that one besides to say I guess you met great people, and you're a loving person, I guess that's it. For the second question, "Am I doomed to just blow this all up as it will be impossible to manage?" I think that question's worth looking at. I think you've already planted a seed of some of the answer earlier on when you talked about your partner, Darryl took on a new partner and had less time for you.
Now I know you felt shitty about that, and you were frustrated by that lack of time in this established relationship, but what it does show is that the amount of time you spend with each of these people, can vary, that could change. This might mean, like Emily said, needing to carve out a time for yourself. That's where you're not answering the needs of your children or any of your partners, and that's just your time. These people who love you can help support you in getting the thing that you need so you can show up in those relationships.
I would also say like you mentioned that your phone never stops because keeping up with messaging all of them, I know that for me, that would be a big source of stress and a big frustration of feeling like I can't ever get away from this. I do think it would be worth considering that. It's like, yes, it's fun to be texting people all the time and staying connected, but there might need to be some times when it's like, "This is my not phone time. This is my not messaging time," or just building up maybe more anticipation of when we get to see each other in person because we're not talking as often on here.
I guess the through line of what I'm getting at here, is that it's okay to ask for these things. It's okay to ask for getting some of your time back because I will say if you don't deal with that, and you do push yourself to your breaking point, that's when it will blow up, or rather collapse. I would say rather than blow up more likely. You can't keep going if it doesn't feel sustainable to you, but you can have these conversations and maybe make some changes, and assuming these people want to support you as well, I think that could be possible. Like I said, I know people who do have several partners, but they do limit the amount of time and effort that each of them take up.
Dedeker: I don't know how to put this, but I'm thinking about that time in my life where I was accidentally in love with four people and was like, "Oh, no, what do I do?" Now, this sucked at the time, but I suppose it was a little bit fortunate that one of those people broke up with me. Now, they broke up with me in a very kind, very compassionate way, probably one of the best breakups I've been through to be quite honest, but there was a little bit of this attrition that happened.
I don't want to say something super jaded like, "Well, it's not going to last, so enjoy it while you can because soon they'll start dropping like flies." I don't want to be that negative, although that does happen. It sounds like a lot of these relationships are still new. You're still figuring out the shape of how these people fit into your life, and how much time they have available for you, and bandwidth that they have for whatever type of relationship it is.
It sounds like there's still going to be a figuring-out process. The chips still haven't completely fallen and settled, and so I imagine that there may still be more to discover here that may give some more clarity about which relationships are actually going to be sustainable, and in what format.
Jase: Yes. This also makes me wonder how much time are you having for friends, or other activities besides just these more romantic relationships. Obviously, there's your kids, which is an important relationship as well, but one that takes a lot of work, and depending on the age of your kids, tends to involve a lot more giving of energy than receiving of energy. I do think it's worth really looking at how can you take care of yourself, but also what are ways you can offer to your partners to help them help you take care of yourself, or to help them take care of you.
It's very likely that they would like to be helping you feel more balanced and more energy in your life. Maybe finding some ways to bring them in on that and have them be a team in it, so it's like you're getting time back but also as a way of deepening a connection rather than losing a connection by pulling back from it.
Emily: Yes, when I've been in these situations, I've found that I don't do things like hang out with friends or even take on certain things that people ask of me because I know that it might cut into my time with my partners. That's not a great feeling to say no to a friend over and over because I'm like, "Well, I have a scheduled date night with this person, and so I just know that I can't." It's okay to ask for things. It's okay to say, "I actually on this day I’m going to do something for myself and try to prioritize someone other than the four of you and my children, et cetera, that that someone needs to be me."
Just keep that in mind because it is tough and, yes, maybe it's not going to last forever, and maybe that'll be okay. See how you feel at this time in your life doing all of these things and getting to be in love with all of these people, and then see what happens if in a few years that's not the case anymore. Maybe judge at that point, "Where do I feel best? Where do I feel most like myself and most like this is a point of capacity where I don't feel overwhelmed, but instead I feel like I'm right where I want to be."
Jase: Yes. I also like that in the question you've already shown things don't stay static. You're developing a new relationship, reconnecting with an ex, you're changing relationship with Darryl. You see that these things can change because I'm also thinking about times when I've been dating and something just didn't quite end up being sustainable, but I've still had a friend out of that, someone who's still a connection. It's not like, "Oh, this is over, and now that's cut out forever from my life." There can also be this ebb and flow and change as everyone's trying to figure out how to take care of themselves and each other.
Emily: Yes, definitely.
Jase: Well, I hope that our ramblings on this have been helpful to you, Crazily over committed in Canada. Thank you so much for writing in. I think this is a situation a lot of people will be able to relate to of just feeling stretched a little too thin, whether that's stretched thin at two partners, or four or six or whatever, but I think a lot of people can relate to this. I hope that you're able to find some ways to take care of yourself.
Emily: Well, that is the end of yet another wonderful question-and-answer episode. We really love doing these. Again, you can go to multiamory.com/questions to submit a question for the show. You don't have to be a subscriber, any of you can go out and do that, and we love hearing from all of you. Our question of the week, which is going to be on our Instagram Stories, is the second question we received, which is, "Have you ever repaired a broken metamour relationship and how did you do it?"