454 - When Someone You Love Wants to be Monogamous
Why go back to monogamy?
We discussed some reasons why someone might return to monogamy in episode 449, but just to recap, some of them could be:
They find that a polyamorous lifestyle doesn’t really work for them.
They are in the midst of a big transition and want to make things easier in terms of scheduling or other life concerns.
They are overwhelmed with a job or school and simply can’t take on additional partners.
It was their intention all along to become monogamous when they found someone they wanted to settle down with.
They meet someone who makes them want to become monogamous (or someone who gives them an ultimatum about being monogamous).
Some of the potential benefits to consider if you’re thinking about returning to monogamy could be:
More time and energy to work on projects outside of relationships
Emotional and physiological stabilization in your relationship
The social paradigm of “the best type of relationship is monogamy” is deeply prevalent in many cultures. You may find your life is easier if you adhere to a more normative lifestyle.
When someone has been polyamorous for a long time and meets someone with whom they want to be monogamous, that’s fine! But there should be some considerations, like:
This may be a simple case of being in deep NRE for a period of time. NRE can last for 6-12 months and will eventually fade.
It might be a good idea to not make any big lifestyle changes because of one person in the first year.
Think strategically about the long-term ramifications of your decision, especially if you are dating other people. How will they be affected by this decision?
If you do become monogamous again, you are limiting the potential option of dating other people, maybe for a LONG period of time.
If you become monogamous, your partner may never want to become polyamorous again, and that may be a decision that affects your life for the duration of your time together.
If you do ultimately decide monogamy is best for you at this point in your life, some tips we have for being courteous and respectful while doing so are:
Be sure to figure out the best way to relay that information to your other partners. This will very much depend on circumstances.
Prepare for potential pain, hurt, and blowback from telling your partners you are leaving them to become monogamous.
If this is a plan you’ve had for some time, it might be a good idea to try to make that known early on in the relationship.
Give your partners the courtesy of breaking off the relationship in person, if possible.
Own your part in the breakup and own the hurt you may cause this person for your decision.
It’s okay to mourn and grieve the loss of these relationships, even if they were casual.
Give them time before you try to be friends with them or transition your relationship into something more. Let them be the ones to spearhead that transition if they so choose.
Transcript
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Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we are discussing going back to monogamy after being polyamorous or otherwise non-monogamous. Why would someone want to go back to monogamy? What are the potential benefits or negative consequences of doing so? What should you be asking yourself if you're considering going back to monogamy? Today, we're going to explore this topic while also giving some pointers for how you could make that transition back to monogamy, more respectful and ethical if you decide to do that, as well as some considerations for if you're the person on the receiving end of that decision by someone else.
Emily: This topic came out of a conversation I had with a coworker, which we'll get into later in the episode. First, we just wanted to say to everyone, Happy New Year. Here we are. It is 2024, my goodness. Do you two have any resolutions?
Dedeker: 2024. Let's multiamory some more. That's every year's resolution, honestly. It's not quite unique.
Emily: Thank you for making it rhyme, Dedeker.
Jase: I like that. Maybe, 2024, not going to stress so much anymore.
Dedeker: That's good. Less stress is good. Monogamy, huh? Maybe there's going to be some monogamy in 2024. Maybe someone is probably going to be monogamous in 2024. Somebody will.
Emily: I think at least somebody.
Jase: Someone yes.
Dedeker: At least a few people-
Emily: At least single person.
Dedeker: -will choose monogamy or maybe choose to go back to monogamy after experimenting with non-monogamy for a while, or maybe choose to go to monogamy for the first time ever. Can we talk about our respective relationships with monogamy? I always feel the need to reiterate where we stand these days because thankfully, most people don't listen to our entire show, and so they don't necessarily have a full picture of our lives. You, Emily, famously you are the monogamous one of the Multiamory Podcast.
Emily: It's true, yes, because I was non-monogamous, and I think I was non-monogamous in some form or fashion for about five years and then went back to monogamy. I think really, the reason why I went back to monogamy, which is a specific and unique reason that other people will not have, but the reason why I did is because it clearly was the best thing for the relationship that I was in. I think that that relationship took precedent over others. It was the person that I was living with. I guess it was hierarchical in that sense. If I wanted to continue with that relationship, monogamy was basically the only thing that was going to work for it at that particular point.
We tried non-monogamy for a while, but it was causing a lot of hurt and pain, and so, going back to monogamy I think was the best thing for us. That's how I've been for the last four or five years, and it's been fine. There are definitely aspects I miss, but we'll see. Maybe that'll be in my life again in the future.
Dedeker: Sure.
Emily: How about you two?
Dedeker: Okay. Let's see. My wrap sheet with monogamy. Sure, grew up pretty default on questioning monogamous in most of my relationships. I certainly had a fair amount of distress when I started first getting into relationships, a fair amount of distress, realizing, "Oh, I'm monogamous with this person, but I'm still attracted to other people. Oh no, what does that mean about me? Oh, there's something wrong with me or something broken about me." When I first started experimenting with non-monogamy, I think I had a period of a couple years that I call my experimental years where I think I did a lot of back and forth when it came to dating because I really wasn't sure, is this really my cup of tea or not because our culture doesn't exactly encourage non-monogamous relationships.
It was really hard to sort out what do I actually want and what is attachment issues, what are commitment issues or whatever. I think I gave my last real hurrah to intentionally chosen monogamy way back in, I want to say 2012 is maybe the last time I was in an intentionally monogamous relationship. The circumstances was that I just fell head over heels for this guy, and he checked every single box, at least seemingly, of ideal partner. I had already started to head down this road of, "I might be polyamorous." He was like, "Oh, come on, you're just a chicken, basically.
Emily: Wow, you're like, "Am I? I don't know."
Dedeker: No. It was, "Am I? Am I just a chicken?" This is the situation that all the movies and all of my culture has told me, if there's ever a time to choose monogamy, this is the one when you're just totally crazy for somebody. I did, and then I hated it. I couldn't do it. When he and I broke up, it wasn't really a big dramatic breakup for me. It was much more of a factual, like, "This is great, and you're great, and I just don't think that I can do this." I think that was my last intentional hurrah with monogamy. Jase and I got accidentally monogamous for a year at the tail end of the pandemic because that's just how things happened after I went through my big breakup in 2022.
Emily: Would you call that monogamous though? Again, I know it's defacto monogamy just because the two of you weren't dating anyone else. However, you still had in your minds that you could date other people.
Dedeker: Yes, we both still went on some dates. I think Jase, we had conversations about it, right? I think we acknowledged it a couple of times and we checked in about it. I think that every time we checked in it was very clear of, "No, this doesn't feel like this is like, oh yes, we're going to be monogamous now necessarily." Am I getting that right? What's your sorted history?
Jase: Sure, yes. Just to answer that question first, the way that I always describe it to people is that being monogamous or being non-monogamous, polyamorous, something like that is not about the number of partners that you have at a given time, but about how you expect those to behave. Like what you think is allowed for yourself, what you think is allowed for your partner. An example of that is a single person might say, "I'm monogamous," meaning that's the kind of relationship that they want. That's the kind of relationship that matches their values.
You might say, "No, you're not because you don't have any partners. You're, I don't know, aromantic or something." That doesn't make sense. That's not the label that would go with them. To me, it's not about the number of partners. That whole, we were defacto monogamous for this year during the pandemic, I'm like, "Yes, it's fun joke to say," but I don't actually take it serious.
Dedeker: Fun, spicy experiment for us really, really livened things up if you know what I mean.
Jase: Right, but I don't think that anything actually ever changed-
Dedeker: No.
Jase: -in terms of either of our values or what we expected of each other or what we felt like was allowed or not allowed in our relationship. I don't think that changed at all just because we happened to not have any other partners at the time. To go back and answer your question, Dedeker, about my history with it, mine was somewhat typical in the whole grew up just thinking monogamy is the only option. That's really the only way to do it. Then later in college started to question some of that, but more thinking about it along the lines of some amount of openness, so, a swinging type lifestyle type thing, or at least the freedom to be able to flirt with people and that that's not out of bounds.
For me it was more of like a loosening of what monogamy was, I guess, what counts as monogamy, and struggling with some of that, of just like this makes sense to me and yet a lot of people seem to be uncomfortable with it, and having some guilt that I brought with me, feeling like maybe something's wrong with me, that I would want those things, or that I would think those things are okay. Had partners who were upset that I must not love them because I wasn't getting jealous of them like they expected me to, about certain things, or that I would even say that I wouldn't mind if they were flirting with someone or something like that. Had this challenging history with that. Then fast forward to when Emily and I opened up our relationship, and in talking to family and friends about that, was when I finally started actually reading some of the resources and learning that polyamory was a thing and that people did this.
Dedeker: Here we are.
Jase: For me, it was that whole coming home kind of feeling of, oh my gosh, this thing that has been inside of me that I've felt but didn't think was an option, and so, did my best to do the thing that I thought was the only option, it was like, oh, this is possible? This is the right thing for me, and there was no looking back, even if it was challenging. Emily and I have talked about how we opened up at first and then closed back up before we opened up again when we were first making that transition. For me, it was like, as soon as I found out it was something that was possible, it was like, ah, this is the one that lines up with my values and just what I feel is right for me. Maybe I could do monogamy for a short term like we did, but I wouldn't go back now.
Dedeker: Before we dive into the body of this discussion, I just want to give a caveat that I like to believe that on this show we really strive to be pro-relationship diversity, and that involves being pro-monogamy as well. Something that really gets under my skin is seeing sometimes other non-monogamy content creators really feel the need to bash monogamous people, or to be like, "Oh, those toxic monogamous people that are so codependent and unenlightened and so needy." I'm like, "Okay, yes, sure." We can unpack some of maybe the toxic messages that we get from a default monogamy culture."
Also, to me, I think very intentional, good, healthy monogamy is a part of that relationship diversity spectrum. When we're talking about people choosing monogamy after not being monogamous or choosing to go back to monogamy or choosing to close their relationship, it's not like we're seeing as though we lost someone from the team. I know, Emily, you expressed feelings, some of that hesitation, way back in the day when you chose monogamy while you were still hosting this show.
Emily: Oh, yes. I was very worried that our audience were going to be really upset or say like, "She shouldn't be on the show anymore because she's not representing the majority of the people who listen to the show," things along those lines. That wasn't and hasn't been the case, which I really appreciate from our listeners. Nobody has ever reached out and said, "You should jump off the show because you jumped ship on non-monogamy." I appreciate that. Thank you to everyone out there. I think it's good to have multiple perspectives because I'm sure, as I think Dedeker, you expressed before we started this episode, a lot of people struggle with this question and a lot of people will at some point go back to monogamy in some way simply because of a bunch of different circumstances.
I wanted to start out with some of those, like why would somebody want to go back to monogamy? We did reference some of these in our recent episode, 449. I just wanted to continue going from there and talk about why would somebody want to go back to monogamy.
Dedeker: Can we just start out with the obvious that when we're talking about non-monogamy, this shit is hard sometimes.
Emily: Yes, it is.
Dedeker: It's hard. It's complicated. It's not easy and our culture doesn't make it easy. I do think there has to be a lot of emotional steadiness. I think there's a certain amount of bravery, and when I say bravery it doesn't mean that people who choose monogamy are not brave. I think it's like a particular flavor of bravery that it takes to choose a very atypical, non-normative relationship style, and that's tough.
Emily: Yes. I think I found even being in situations with friends that sometimes this factor of potential jealousy can come up. I think that that's because it's so ingrained within our society. That's something that I saw over and over when I was doing some research for this episode, is this idea of jealousy and this idea of, oh, you're going to be uncomfortable, and so if you go back to monogamy, you're not going to be uncomfortable anymore. That's a plus, that's a positive, especially within the context of a more hierarchical relationship or couples.
Jase: I think to go to what Dedeker was saying about bravery, I would almost say maybe even energy, like the going against the stream of what everyone else is doing, to swim even perpendicular to the current is going to take more energy to get less distance than if you just swam with the current. I do think there's a certain amount of that, at least at first. I think once you've done it long enough, that becomes easier, especially as you connect with more people and start to build more communities and have more resources, but yes, it's that thing like you were saying, Emily.
If literally everybody in your life or at least the vast majority are telling you this would be easier if you weren't doing this or you wouldn't be struggling if you weren't doing this, or even just the fact that if you're in a non-monogamous relationship and you don't have a good support network within that and you're having trouble, everyone is just going to blame the type of your relationship you're in. If you switch back to monogamy and you have a hard time, no one is going to tell you it's because you shouldn't be doing monogamy. They're going to say, "Oh, that's--"
Emily: Just because relationships are hard or whatever.
Jase: Yes. There's, "Oh, relationships are hard. Oh, you'll get through it." They'll be a lot more encouraging.
Emily: Yes.
Jase: I think that sucks that that's the reality, but it is the reality. I do think there's a certain amount of practicalness to accepting that and admitting that and saying, "Yes, maybe I would like non-monogamy, but I just don't have the energy to fight against the current that way. I want to get more support from my family or my friends and I can get that if I'm monogamous." I get that.
Dedeker: That's interesting because I do think our accidental monogamy gap year that you and I had Jase, it did help me, I guess for the first time in a long time to see some of the benefits that come along with monogamy when you're not even really trying. For me, a lot of it I think had to do with social acceptance and social ease. Some of this could have been projecting on my part. I know, Jase, we talked about this when I started dating someone again, when the gap year essentially ended and it was like, okay, I'm going back into, I guess, the type of relationship practice that I know the most, but I'm worried that now all my baby boomer family members are going to disapprove of me again.
Emily: Interesting.
Dedeker: Which is not true. I'm not in a family situation where anyone is openly disapproving or mean to me or anything like that. Fortunately, it's been enough years now that I think they've just had to get over it and deal with it, but there was a certain amount of that, oh, when I just have one partner, I can bask in the normalcy of being a good, normal, productive, successful millennial that the baby boomers can finally be proud of, not one of these weirdo millennials that are out there. There was something about-- I don't know. I feel like I'm really parting the veil on this one into my inner psychology.
There was something there about almost feeling like, oh, I'm going to cast myself out of the paradise of normalcy once again into being the weirdo who has to explain her relationships to all of my family members once more.
Emily: That's really interesting. I think if for a lot of people, just from practical standpoints, it is easier to be monogamous, especially when you are in the midst of a big life transition. I've heard of people closing their relationship back up when they're pregnant or when they're about to have a baby that just in terms of the time that it takes to see other people or to be exploring the possibility of new relationships, they just don't have time to do that with a new kid or if your job is really ramping up in some way or you're in the midst of your PhD or something along those lines, that it's just really not practical to be non-monogamous. Therefore, they're choosing monogamy during that point in their lives.
Jase: That's one of those ones that I always will bring up the question, though. We can talk about this more in the second half when we get into the questions to ask yourself when you're trying to make that decision. Just that, yes, again, it's on the one hand, maybe it would be easier and feel like, yes, I'm also going to get more support in having a kid or doing something like that if I go back to officially being monogamous. Just to remind everyone that there is this whole world of relationship anarchy and building your own types of relationships, where maybe it is, yes, we're going to have a kid.
We're going to stop dating, maybe we have existing relationships and make it clear just we're not going to be as available for the next, I don't know, several years, maybe 18 years. I don't know. Not really, but maybe just to be honest and clear, and those partners might say, "Yes, okay, let's change our relationship to something else." They might say, "No, that's not going to work for me." They might have some option there, but just to point out that there are ways to still get those same things without it having to be the only way to get this is to be monogamous. There's multiple ways to build your own relationships and be non-monogamous. I think that'll be a recurring theme through all of this, is which pieces are monogamy-specific and which are just wanting to do some kind of non-monogamy differently.
Emily: Absolutely. I do think sometimes it is the case that a person is non-monogamous for a time in their lives, but they always know that they're eventually going to want to settle down and become monogamous. I know, Jase, you've referenced on the show a few times. a relationship that you had where that was the case. It was probably nice, I'm assuming, to have that knowledge so that it didn't come out of nowhere, oh, yes, this person is finally going to settle down now and become monogamous.
Jase: In that particular situation, it wasn't that someday I'm going to settle down and be monogamous, it was that someday I want to have a kid and that doing that matters more to me than my relationship structure. If monogamy ends up being the way that's easier for me to do that, that's what I'm going to do. It wasn't quite the same, because if it were someone just saying, "Yes, I'm going to do this for now and someday I'm going to settle down and be monogamous," personally, I might say, "Let's not then. I don't want to do that."
If you think of this as this non-real, temporary thing, that just doesn't line up with my values about doing non-monogamy. Even if you did make that choice, if it's entering in from that of, I don't take you seriously, I don't want to be in a relationship with that.
Emily: Interesting.
Jase: In this case, it was a little bit different because it was more like for her, the having a kid was the thing, and it's just how can I find a way to do that. I'm open to it being non-monogamous if that works out, but at the end of the day, that's the priority. It's a subtle difference, but for me, that's what made the difference. It was still really hard and sad when she did make that decision to start just trying to pursue monogamous relationships to that end. That was still really hard and sad, but it wasn't like, I'm so betrayed, or-
Emily: Sure.
Jase: -oh, you lied to me, or whatever, because I understood why.
Dedeker: Yes, but the same thing happened to me. Gosh, this was ages ago, but where I think we only ended up dating maybe a couple of months at most. It wasn't a very long relationship. I think he was new to non-monogamy, but I think did great at it as far as the whole, his experience of me having other partners. He actually did fantastic at it and was very upfront about he is really motivated in having a family and settling down someday. I think the non-monogamy was just a question for him. Then, yes, ultimately, he eventually was the one who was like, "Yes, I think I can only really envision doing that monogamously, so I don't think this is going to work."
A very similar experience, but it was sad. I was really disappointed, but at least it was-- I don't know. I guess I would have preferred that than to someone trying to drag themselves through a relationship that he didn't think was going to work for them, or maybe pretending, or maybe waiting for five years of investment to happen, and then being like, "Hey, actually, peace out. I'm going to go be monogamous." Swings and roundabouts, as the Brits say.
Emily: One of the ways that people turn back to monogamy is often if a partner gives them an ultimatum and says, "Sorry, it's either me or non-monogamy, and that's it. You have to be monogamous with me or else I'm leaving," or they just meet someone who ultimately they realize, "Oh, yes, I do want to be monogamous with this person and I'm going to leave non-monogamy for them." That we're going to get into a little bit more in the second half of this episode. I do think that that ultimatum one is a really tough place to be in, and that's a big decision that you have to make.
Dedeker: And super common also.
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: I know I've experienced that. Ultimatum is a harsh word. Sometimes it's not always delivered that harshly, but functionally-
Emily: It's the same.
Dedeker: -it's just the terms, right?
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: It's the terms that are on the table. I've been put in that situation. I've known many other non-monogamous people who've been put in that situation. I've had a lot of non-monogamous clients come to me for help dealing with that situation.
Emily: Sure.
Dedeker: I started dating someone, and actually, it's really working out well. There's really good chemistry. I actually really enjoy this relationship, and I don't want to lose it. This person wants to be monogamous and helping someone sort out is it worth it, is it worth it to take that risk?
Emily: Yes, that's the question for sure. I tried to find statistics out there on how many people turn back to monogamy after being non-monogamous for a period of time, and it's like it doesn't exist. There were some really bullshit stats that were thrown around. We didn't even want to really get into those because there was nothing specifically saying that they were true or where they came from.
Dedeker: We couldn't find any sources.
Emily: Yes, no sources particularly. I was really shocked at the amount of people on the polyamory subreddit, for instance, who had this question or who grappled with this question of, does anybody go back to monogamy after being non-monogamous. On the polyamory subreddit, I was mentioned a couple of times, which, thank you.
Dedeker: See, famously, as I said.
Emily: Exactly. There were quite a few people on there that said, "Yes, I absolutely have gone back to monogamy and then gone back to non-monogamy, for instance, and it just depends on the season in my life." I think that makes a lot of sense. I think, Dedeker, you referenced one of these already, but what are some potential benefits that you may get from going back to monogamy?
Dedeker: Yes, for sure. If I think about, right now in this moment, if it was like you have to be monogamous instantly, I think probably the biggest relief would be the social stuff for me, is that just our culture is built to support monogamy, institutionally, emotionally, socially, culture, all of these things. This idea that monogamy is the default relationship, sometimes even the idea that we are genetically, naturally meant to be monogamous. There's a lot of research out there that also suggests maybe otherwise, right? Evolutionary psychology is a sticky landmine of a field of studies sometimes.
Jase: Sticky? Really?
Emily: Yes.
Dedeker: It's so deeply ingrained that sometimes just that, just having a relationship style that does not go against the current can help make your life easier. Now this is something that also stacks because, let's say you are openly in a queer relationship and that already has a certain amount of difficulty existing in culture, and then if you're also trying to be openly non-monogamous, then that adds another layer of social difficulty sometimes or social judgment. Sometimes choosing also a non-mainstream form of relationship can then exponentially increase the stigma you experience in other areas of your life if you belong to other marginalized identities. Sometimes if you're already exhausted from having to deal with that, choosing a more mainstream relationship can help ease some of the burden of that.
Jase: Another potential, I guess to take Dedeker's situation of you have to be monogamous now, what are the silver linings you could find to this? Potentially having more time and energy to work on other projects or other types of friend relationships rather than spending as much time dating or trying to meet new people or whatever, I could see that as a benefit. However, again, just to go back to my experience, I've done that anyway, while still being non-monogamous, but I just haven't had as much interest in dating recently. That doesn't mean I want to tell Dedeker, "Hey, you shouldn't date."
In fact, I'm like, "No, yes, go for it. That's awesome. Please, date." To me, those two don't have to go together. I don't need to be monogamous in order to not have to prioritize dating. I think that for me, earlier on, that might have felt different because, especially early on, there can be that sense of my partner is dating more than me, that means I feel less secure in this relationship. There's that kind of jealousy feeling of, I might lose them to one of these other people, so I need to be dating other people as well. Or maybe it's just feeling competitive or getting your self-worth from having these other relationships.
There's a whole lot of psychology that can go on there. I think for me, earlier, that would have been harder. Whereas having done this for a while, and specifically having been in the relationship with Dedeker for quite a while, there is more of that sense of, yes, there are seasons. That's what my therapist would always say. He's like, "It's all about seasons. This could be a season where you're dating less, and there can be a season where you're dating more. It could be a season where you're working more, a season where you're traveling more, where you're working a normal job versus when you're freelancing." All sorts of things like that, that there can be seasons in your life. I think that gets easier to see as you get older and also as you've been doing something longer, whether that's your job or your relationship, or whatever.
Emily: I did find when I was non-monogamous that that kind of was all-encompassing for that period of my life. It really took up my time in a way that nothing else could break into that as much. I think that was because I was just starting out at it, but I was focused on dating. I was focused on all of my relationships. I was focused on creating stuff for this podcast, and that became the focus of my life. I think that if people are really interested in other things or have a lot of other projects in addition to that, it's really difficult to do both at the same time and put your full energy into it.
I do think that as time goes on and you get better at it, it becomes a little bit easier. You don't have to put so much focus on only that. If a person doesn't ever move into that stage of non-monogamy, then it's understandable that they're like, "I'm sorry, this just takes up too much energy and time and effort. I can't see past that, so I need to pull back in some way."
Jase: Yes, it's entirely possible that you might have that experience, go back to monogamy and some number of years later, go back to some form of non-monogamy. It's not so tumultuous and doesn't take so much effort that time. That's entirely possible too, that you've had that, those years to background process. Maybe get more comfortable with yourself, build up more of a support network for it, who knows what. There's a lot of factors that go into it, but I've often given that analogy of when you first start being non-monogamous or polyamorous, it can be like you're resetting to when you very first started dating at all.
If you think back-
Dedeker: That's true.
Jase: -for most of us at least, when you first started dating, it's like all you ever thought about was, who do you like, who likes me, who am I going to date, who's into me, all that sort of gossipy stuff from whatever, middle school, high school. All of that. In a certain way, you're going back because you're having to relearn those dynamics at least somewhat. It's not maybe quite as extreme as back then, but I do think there's an element of it, and that maybe that is too much to handle for right now. That's entirely possible.
Emily: Finally, I found a lot of people discussing the fact that there is a lot of destabilization that can happen emotionally and even physiologically. That's something that Irene Morning talked about a lot in her book when she was on the show. If you go back to monogamy, I do think that that stabilization can come back to you. Especially if you're opening up an existing relationship that may be coming back to monogamy, it just doesn't add as much tumultuous challenge as trying something completely different, trying to change your paradigm, trying to completely figure out how to adjust and move through this new lifestyle that you're totally unfamiliar with.
I do think that for a lot of people, going back to monogamy, it's just easier. It's just what many of us are taught, this is the way that it should be. It's just going to be simply easier for you in a lot of ways.
Dedeker: A flavor I wanted to bring in that I don't think we've quite touched on yet, and it is related to that dating piece and all the energy that goes into dating, I've met some people who maybe they've been in a monogamous relationship for a long time, and maybe they're opening up or they're newly entering a non-monogamous relationship and they're really excited by the idea of dating. Like, wow, I get to date at this life stage, and I get to meet people and go out and have fun and explore these different hobbies and interests and stuff like that.
Then I've met some people where the idea of having to date is like, oh God, I thought I was done with this. I thought I'd found the person that worked for me. I don't want to go out there and try to find other people to date. I don't want to because dating takes a lot of energy, and it's a freaking drag sometimes. That piece, I totally get that, for some people that's something that monogamy opens up for them is, I don't even have to think about going back on the meat market again or think about any of those dynamics.
Emily: Totally.
Jase: We're going to take a quick break to talk about how you can help us keep this show going. We love being able to put this out there into the world every week for free for anyone with a podcast machine. They can just listen to this, get these resources wherever they are. The way that we do that is through our advertising and also through people who support our show directly by going to multiamory.com/join. If you appreciate the show, just take a moment, check out our advertisers, if any seem interesting to you, go check them out. That really does directly support our show and help us to keep doing this.
Emily: We're back. The reason why I wanted to do this episode is because a friend of mine, a coworker who I've known for many years, and who I've known to be polyamorous for the entire time that I've known him-- Quick clarification, I asked this person if it was okay to talk about this on the show, and he said, absolutely, that this is probably a thing that could help a lot of people to discuss this. Just putting it out there that I got permission to talk about it here. He came to me because he just started dating a person, they've been dating for maybe three or four months.
He is just completely head over heels for her in a way that he says that he never has been with anyone before. He tends to be fairly aloof in his relationships. It takes a long time for him to call a person, a partner, or a girlfriend, but he really enjoys many of the aspects of non-monogamy. He's fairly kinky, things along those lines. With this person, he's like, "I could see myself being monogamous with her. She's really the only one that I'm thinking about right now. Anytime I'm with other partners, I would rather be with her. I want to call her my girlfriend now.
I am in love with her. I want to do little things for her." So many things that just I think really have rocked his world in terms of shifting this narrative that, "Oh, I'm just going to be this fun, aloof, non-monogamous guy," to, "I'm really head over heels for this person." He was like, "I really am worried because I feel like I'm going to become monogamous with her and I just don't know if that's the right call, the right decision, but everything in my body and everything in my emotions is telling me, yes, I should go do that." She has listened to our show, she has also done some research, stuff like that, but I think that for her, she's also struggling with the idea of dating other people and struggling a little bit with the idea that he dates other people just because I think that she would also rather be monogamous with him.
All of those things together caused me to really want to talk about this with the two of you and do a whole episode on this because so many people will go back to monogamy for all the reasons that we've talked about but this specific one, I think does still happen more often than maybe we even realize. To me, it sounds like a big case of NRE.
Jase: There's a lot to take in in this story. You could even say there's far too much to take in here.
Dedeker: It's hard to find that can ever be found, really.
Jase: Yes, boy.
Dedeker: What we're saying is monogamy, it's just part of the circle of life. You have a season here, a season there.
Jase: I don't know if that's actually what we're saying about this particular story here because-- If I could just start off with a few thoughts that came to mind and then maybe we can go from there. One is that, yes, this sounds like NRE. This sounds like a new relationship that's very exciting, but I do think it's worth noting that this person has been dating and has been non-monogamous for quite a while and that for him, this is the first time he says that he's feeling this level of whatever it is. I think that that's worth taking a moment to acknowledge, to celebrate, and just my personal beliefs about life and whatever, I'm like, I don't think that that is some magical sign from the cosmos that this is the one or whatever, which we tend to go there when we're in those feelings of feeling like this is profound and has bigger reaching meanings than anything else.
At the same time, this is profound in that you can feel this thing that maybe you thought wasn't accessible to you. That's cool, and I do think that's worth celebrating and acknowledging that. Whether we put meaning on it or make decisions during it, then I'm going to be a little bit hesitant, but I don't want to squash the coolness of the fact that he's feeling that.
Dedeker: It sounds to me like the best parts of NRE, which is, maybe this sounds kind of mercenary, but it's like at the very least you're getting a really great free high. A free body high.
Emily: For sure. I think that fact scared him a little bit.
Jase: Sorry.
Emily: That makes sense. Feeling those feelings for the first time, it is super overwhelming. It's not always great because you're like, "What is this? This is a bit much." Parts of it are wonderful, but parts of it are super overwhelming.
Jase: We have talked before, I think it's been a while since we've really talked about the brain chemical side of NRE or new relationship energy or twitterpated feeling or whatever, falling in love, whatever you want to call it, but that there is a little bit of a negative side in that our brain chemicals are also suppressing the hormones that let us feel comfortable, which can lead to that kind of addictive behavior where I really want to be with this person. I feel amazing when I'm with this person, but it also means you feel this shitty withdrawal when you're not with that person.
Again, to reiterate caution about putting too much meaning onto the feelings is that, yes, it's great and it's cool, and it means there's something here worth paying attention to, but also that feeling of when I'm with other people, I just really wish I was with her instead, is probably that lack of serotonin that's letting you feel comfortable and settled. Just to be aware that there's all sorts of brain chemistry stuff going on here, so to not feel like, oh, my partners have been shitty all along. Not that I think he's saying that.
Dedeker: I never want to discourage someone from finally seeing that they're in a bad relationship if that's been the case, right?
Jase: Sure.
Dedeker: For your coworker, if you genuinely are realizing, "Oh my God, all these other relationships I've been in have been horrible," and you're able to corroborate that with multiple other people like you have your friends coming forward are also like, "Yes, dude, that those have all been bad relationships," then maybe that's something to consider.
Jase: I don't think that's what's going on here, but yes.
Dedeker: Sure. I get you. Also, yes, I want to corroborate what Jase has said that like, to a certain extent, this sounds like, yes, the system is operating as it is supposed to, and in my many, many years of being non-monogamous, I've had those experiences where like I'm in NRE with someone and then I'm with a different partner and my brain is still churning thinking about the other partner.
For me, it's about like, "Okay, well, okay, that's exciting. I know, I get it. I'm going to very intentionally bring myself back and like try to be present with my partner here and now and just look forward to the next time that I see this other person," until that eventually changes because it always changes. All NRE changes. Doesn't necessarily mean that it goes away or that it turns into boredom or that you suddenly wake up and then you're like, "Oh, no, I don't like this person anymore," but it always changes.
Again, from a chemical physiological side, those new relationship energy, brain chemicals, last anywhere from as little as six months up to like a year and a half or so, I think is what the science says. They do eventually fade. That's why always on the show, we encourage people, hey, if you're in the first 12 months of NRE with someone, don't sign anything, don't sign a rental agreement, don't sign adoption papers together. Maybe don't even sign a shared cell phone plan or whatever. Just cool your jets. Enjoy the free high, enjoy all the lovey-dovey wonderful feelings and the good sex and everything that's a part of that, but don't necessarily make big life-altering decisions.
I think in the case of your friend, because of the fact that he has identified as non-monogamous for so long and then this one person suddenly makes him want to change that, then I'm like, oh, okay, it doesn't mean like squash out all your NRE, but maybe just wait. That's okay. Just wait. You don't have to pull your heart out of it completely, if anything, like really, you should be trying to stay vulnerable and open because yes, like Jase said, I think that's a really great development to lean into that, but maybe just wait and see, you know?
Jase: Yes, that's what I said to him as well, and just the reality that, yes, you may feel really incredible with this person but if you do leave non-monogamy for them, there's always the potential that they are never going to want you to go back to non-monogamy, and so being able to date other people may just be off the table for the rest of your time with that person.
That's big. That's a huge lifestyle change, and especially when the NRE fades, it's like, wait a minute, what have I just gotten myself into? If I tell this person, "Oh, yes, I just want to be monogamous with them," but all of a sudden I realize, shit, I really do want non-monogamy or I do want the option to date other people and that's not there anymore, that's pretty difficult. That's a harsh reality to face.
Dedeker: I think a helpful question to ask though is, yes. I think it is important to recognize that your interest in other people, your attraction to other people who are not your monogamous partner, that may not go away for you. That may come back at some point. Honestly, even very monogamous people still experience attraction to other people, still experience fantasy about other people.
To a certain extent, all of us, whether we're in a monogamous or not, have to ask ourselves, how do I cope in those situations when I'm fantasizing about someone else, when I develop a little crush with the person I go to class with or whatever? When I find myself attracted to somebody else, how will I cope with those situations?
There's a lot of different coping mechanisms. Everything from, I have a particular narrative about my commitment to this relationship and about how attractive I find my partner, and so it's like really doubling down on that narrative and making sure that narrative is really healthy and strong within me. That's how I'm going to cope all the way up to, maybe I'll bring it up again with my partner. Maybe the way I cope is I'm going to have to be honest with my partner about, "Hey, actually, now, I'm thinking about exploring non-monogamy again, and understanding how that may land in the relationship." I think it's about that.
When I work with clients who are struggling with this, I find asking that how question and thinking about coping mechanisms is a little bit more helpful because even if you're super happy being monogamous and if you're just like, "Wow, like I'm so glad I made this choice to be with this person," there's still going to be something you're going to have to deal with when it comes to your attraction to other people or fantasy about other people because that's something that most of us experience.
Emily: One other thing that's really worth considering here, and Emily brought this up, is that thing of you may never be able to go back to dating other people as long as you stay in this relationship, and the thing I wanted to bring up is specifically when you're having those kinds of conversations while you're in NRE, like while you have all of that rosy sparkly glow, the Vaseline filter on the lens, when you're looking at this person, all of that stuff, one of the things that causes is for us to essentially to be bad at understanding what the other person is saying because we want to project what we think they are or what we hope they are onto what they're actually saying.
I know that there are some people out there who are very pro this idea of when you start a new serious relationship, even if you want to open that up and be polyamorous, you should be closed for a while first. I personally don't agree with that, but I know there are people who are really in support of that way of doing things. The thing is, there's a big difference between both partners very clearly saying, "Yes, we want to do this, let's be monogamous for a while," first with the intention to open up after roughly X amount of time.
What I see happen more often is this thing of the person who really wishes they could be non-monogamous with this person saying, "Okay, I guess you're not super comfortable with non-monogamy, so sure, let's say it will be monogamous because I really want to be with you and then we could revisit this someday." The other person's like, "Okay, maybe," and what you hear is, "Oh, they said yes, we're going to revisit this someday."
Jase: Yes.
Emily: What they heard was, "I want to be monogamous with you. Maybe someday we might talk about that, but we probably won't do it." You've both heard very different conclusions from this and you can end up in this situation that is, I would say more common than most people would like, which is where you end up in this somewhat long-term relationship where both people just keep hoping that the other one's going to change their mind about this pretty fundamental thing about their relationship.
You can end up stuck on either side. Either you're stuck in this non-monogamous relationship where one person's always kind of hoping we would stop doing this or the other way around where you end up monogamous and one person's always kind of hoping that we would go back to some kind of non-monogamy because they're really not that happy with this. I would say just so much extra caution because your NRE is clouding your ability to really hear each other clearly.
Jase: Along those same lines, I think when you're in NRE, it's difficult to see the person for who they 100% truly are and, clearly, you're going to learn things about people the more that you get to know them, but it's really easy to put somebody up on a pedestal if you're falling head over heels for them right off the bat. You may be like, "This person's perfect, they have no flaws," and that may just not be truly the case, and so you may find that you're a little bit more incompatible than you previously thought once that NRE starts to fade, and then if you're in a monogamous relationship, you're like, "Well, crap, this person isn't exactly who I thought that they were when I had those rose-colored glasses on." Not that they're not great, all of those things but you may find that the relationship isn't exactly as perfect as you once thought it was.
Emily: That's true even if you were both monogamous the whole time. That's worth clarifying. That's unique to non-monogamy here.
Dedeker: I love that the Gottman say that all the time, but like when you're picking a life partner, you're just picking which set of perpetual problems can you deal with, which sounds so negative. I promise that the way I see it is much more hopeful than the way that they phrase it, that it really is about, there's always going to be incompatibilities, there's always going to be something that annoys you, and it really is about, I think, learning for yourself, what can I tolerate and what is acceptable or not .
Sometimes it's the same with when you're debating whether to choose a non-monogamous relationship or a monogamous one, it's just like, which set of problems do you want to deal with? Which set of problems do you feel like you are more cut out for dealing with? Which set of problems do you feel like you have a better support network for dealing with because there's going to be some problems regardless?
Jase: There always is.
Dedeker: Yes.
Jase: If you ultimately do decide that you want to become monogamous again, I want to talk about how to do that in the most respectful and responsible way possible because I know for myself, I ended a relationship when I was becoming monogamous again. I think I did it okay, but I think I probably could have telegraphed that possibility more than I did, and that was really hard and really sad and really difficult to say goodbye to a person that I really cared about because I was going to be monogamous again with my partner, so let's talk about some better ways to go about that.
Dedeker: Yes. Again, we're coming from a point of assuming that you're not monogamous, you're dating multiple people, and you're deciding to be monogamous with one person. That means that there's, for lack of a better term, some collateral damage that may happen in the sense that you need to cut off some relationships in order to be monogamous. That may not be the situation that everyone out there is facing when they're dealing with this, but that's primarily the thing that we're talking about is that you do need to prepare for potential pain, hurt, blowback from telling other partners that you are leaving them to become monogamous with somebody else.
Of course, everyone's probably going to respond to that differently, it's going to be different depending on the context of the relationship. Some people may take it really well, it may be like, "Okay, yes, well, this is always a casual thing or whatever, so totally get it. Maybe I'm a little bummed, but that's okay." Some people may be extremely hurt and betrayed.
I think the reason why some people may not respond to this very well outside of, I think, all the predictable reasons of breakups suck and being dumped sucks and especially if it's being dumped for the sake of somebody else really sucks, and that's just painful on a human level. Also, a lot of non-monogamous people, sometimes their number one fear is, "My partner is going to leave me in order to be monogamous with somebody else," and so when that actually happens, for some people, that can be a nightmare coming true, and so quite understandably, the reaction may be negative.
Jase: It's true.
Emily: It's making me think back to some of the experiences I had where I was dating someone who I was their first non-monogamous relationship and they had a lot of questions and struggled getting into that and then eventually, in a couple of different situations I'm thinking of, ended up breaking off our relationship not too long after starting to date someone new who also was more monogamous-leaning.
In both those cases, their reasoning was not, "I'm doing this because I want to be monogamous with this person." That's not the reason they gave me. It was just, "I want to end our relationship." I'm honestly a little bit torn about, if I would've rather known it's because I want to be monogamous because, in a way, that would've helped me feel a little bit more like, "Okay, this isn't about me, and I can be a little bit angry with you about this," even just for myself.
Dedeker: Feel like you're allowed to be more angry?
Emily: Yes, like I'm allowed to be more angry about this, and that maybe that helps me process it actually versus trying to pretend like, "Oh, no, it's not that." It's just, "This is just isn't working out for me, I don't know," whatever, while I see them then continue to date this other person who I know wants to be more monogamous.
I just don't know. I'm torn about it. I feel like, again, going back to my example of the person who ended our relationship not even because she started a new monogamous one but just because she wanted to start pursuing monogamous relationships in the interest of building a family and having kids that I'm like, we also had a longer history in that relationship. We'd been together for several years by that point.
Maybe there's that factor too, but I guess I just, I feel like it did help to just know that even though I was still sad in all of those cases but it just felt cleaner somehow. I could be a little bit annoyed with her about that decision even though I do get it and I care about her and want the best for her and we still get along fine whenever we're in touch, so it's not like anything really long-lasting bad happened there. I just would prefer that over trying to pretend that's not the reason, and I think we might do that out of this sense of, "Oh, I'm failing at this if I go back to monogamy, so I don't want to give that as the reason."
Dedeker: I just don't know how to have a good sales pitch for you saying, throw your partner or your ex-partner a bone so that they can be mad at you and maybe get over it a little bit faster.
Jase: No, here it is, Dedeker, I think that it's more that you are owning the fact that you're acknowledging, "Hey, I get that this is shitty. I get that this sucks, and I am acknowledging and owning my part in this and that I'm making this decision that is ultimately going to hurt other people." Being able to do that and say that to someone is like, "Okay, well, good, I'm glad that you get that. I'm glad that you--" I don't know.
Dedeker: Just so spiteful.
Emily: No, but that's good though.
Dedeker: No, it's good. I agree. I totally 100% agree. It's just your delivery was funny.
Emily: Well, that's how I talk, but yes, I think it's also important to give your partners the courtesy of breaking up with them in person. It maybe if you're not proximal to them, then fine. That's more difficult if you're long distance, but if you can do it in person and say like, "Hey, I'm making this decision, I really apologize, like this is really tough for me, but ultimately, I think the monogamy is going to be the better option for me." I think that is a mature and brave thing to be able to do and say.
Jase: Yes, and I do think it's worth acknowledging because we're talking about understanding that you will hurt people by this decision, and that's true a lot in relationships. We do have to accept to a certain extent that we will hurt people by being in relationships with them because sometimes we're going to get out of those relationships or we're going to do the wrong thing while we're in them or that's just an inevitable fact.
Dedeker: Yes. I just want to clarify also that it would be the same if the situation were reversed. That if you were deciding, "No, I can't be monogamous with this person," you would be hurting that person most likely. It's not to try to guilt trip one particular decision.
Emily: Totally. Yes. Absolutely.
Jase: It's worth accepting a certain amount of that, and I think that's part of my pitch for, like Emily said, being honest with them as much as you can and being clear about that you're making this decision and why you're making it while also understanding that no matter how well you explain it, they will probably be mad at you, they will probably be upset, and they should be, and that's okay.
That's going to be part of their processing this, and you're probably going to be sad and feel bad about it, but that's also part of part processing this, and I think that's true with any kind of breakup, whether it's monogamous or non-monogamous, or whatever, but just accepting some of that and not trying to think, "Oh, there's going to be some way that I can do this that will avoid that." I think that's how we get into weird, dodgy, unclear communication, and I've been guilty of this many times in my life.
Dedeker: Yes. I do feel like whenever breakups are happening, the length we will go to desperately to not be seen as the bad guy. Sometimes I think it's less about hurting someone. Not like, sure, sometimes it doesn't feel good to have to hurt somebody else, but I think the bigger part of it is not wanting to be seen as the bad guy.
Emily: Yes. I get it. That's tough. I do think that you should give time, especially if you do want to try to transition that relationship into a friendship or something else. Give it a minute. If you're hurting someone, you need to give them time to mourn and yourself time to mourn, and I do think that there is always the possibility that they're not going to want anything to do with you after the fact.
Jase: It is always possible.
Emily: That's their prerogative. That's okay too.
Jase: To bring this a little bit back to the specific situation you brought up, Emily, of your friend who just started dating this new person somewhat recently, I will say that if you've been dating someone new and you break up with me because you want to be monogamous with them, and I'm like, you met this person three months ago, I'm going to feel a lot more betrayed by you from this decision of just feeling like, "Oh, so I was always meaningless to you," that then if you'd been with this person, say, for a year, and it's like, okay, I'm debating this, and I think I'm going to make this decision, and this is hard.
I'm still going to be upset, I'm still going to feel hurt, and I'll probably still be a little bit mad at you as part of my processing, but I just think the degree of that's going to be different if this is a brand new relationship where suddenly you found someone you want to be monogamous with and you leave me instantly, that's going to feel shittier, and also it goes along with what we were saying about, yes, this sounds like NRE, don't make those sorts of life-altering decisions while you're under the influence of that as much as you can help it.
Emily: Totally.
Dedeker: What's our conclusion here?
Emily: What did we learn today, everyone?
Dedeker: What did we learn? I'm at this point, having been in this field of relationships for so long now, I don't care what freaking type of relationship that you choose to be in. Just be kind, be honest, have integrity, be careful, be intentional, go slow, and be cool. Be cool, kids.
Emily: Yes. Cool.
Jase: Be excellent to each other.
Emily: So cool. Be excellent to each other.
Dedeker: Exactly.
Emily: Right. Yes. Exactly, it's okay. Whatever you want to do is okay, but just I think about the ramifications of your decision. If you can go to 30,000 feet and look down and look past the NRE, look out towards maybe potentially many, many years of your life and what that's going to look like if you choose to make such a big decision in shifting your relationship status or shifting the types of relationships that you want to be in.
Jase: Just also understand that there are no clear-cut, 100% sure answers when it comes to, well, basically anything, but especially with relationships, right? That this isn't something where if you just weigh up the right things, you will 100% make the right decision. There's always a little bit of guesswork, there's always risks, and also, we always change over time and so does everyone else. I would maybe encourage considering all these things, but also letting yourself off the hook a little bit about needing to make the right decision because that doesn't exist.