286 - Ghost(ing) Busters!
Boo! You’ve been ghosted…
Almost everyone has been either on the giving or receiving end of ghosting nowadays, especially with the prevalence of online dating: according to this site, 82% of women and 71% of men are involved in it at some point in their lives.
Ghosting: When a person cuts off all communication with their friends or the person they're dating, with zero warning or notice beforehand. You'll mostly see them avoiding friend's phone calls, social media, and avoiding them in public.
Urban Dictionary
Why would someone ghost?
A few studies have been done and countless articles have been written on ghosting, and there are several reasons why someone might be tempted to ghost:
It lets the person doing the ghosting avoid any negative feelings associated with actively hurting the recipient, since they’re not directly communicating their disinterest.
It’s easy to do, especially nowadays with the “block” feature on social media.
Nowadays, it’s a fairly normal thing to do, and people know it’s a possibility before engaging with someone.
According to research, those who ghost are usually already fairly disinterested in the relationship.
Typically, ghosting happens within the first six months of a new relationship.
The lack of social connections people have in common if they meet online makes ghosting much easier and have fewer consequences.
Frequency has bred desensitization, and if someone has been ghosted, they’re more likely to do it to someone else.
Perceived obligation varies, and if someone isn’t feeling the same level of attachment the other is, ghosting is easier.
Pros and cons to ghosting
While it may not seem like there are pros to something like ghosting, there are some times when ghosting can be beneficial or at least not harmful.
Pros:
Ghosting removes the need to directly communicate the desire to end a relationship, which can be a good thing, depending on the person and circumstances.
In some situations of abuse, ghosting someone can be the safest way to end the relationship.
Occasionally, for the person on the receiving end, a breakup can provide a necessary opportunity for self-improvement, and sometimes ghosting is the catalyst to such change.
In some cases, the one being ghosted might not be invested in the relationship and sees the experience as a way to spare the other person’s feelings.
Cons:
A number of studies show that the ghoster usually isn’t invested in the relationship and therefore is less distressed by the subsequent breakup, but a breakup that involves conversation and communication as opposed to ghosting allows for both individuals to feel closure.
Ghosting someone deprives them of the opportunity to have the aforementioned closing conversation, and instead they keep wondering what they did wrong.
Anger, sadness, feelings of rejection, depression, loss of appetite, and loss of sleep have been reported by those who have been ghosted.
Ghosting causes the recipient to question themselves and their own personal judgment.
Ghoster and ghostee
If you’ve been ghosted, here are a few tips on how to react well:
Evaluate whether or not you want to make contact with the person, and reach out once if you want, but don’t seek answers from them if you can help it.
Avoid reminders of the ghost, such as blocking them on social media, deleting old texts, and not looking at old pictures with the two of you. It may be difficult, but it’ll heal the relationship wounds faster.
Know that this may be a red flag and indicate a sign of emotional unavailability in the person. Try to consider the positive.
Practice self care.
Recognize that this type of disengagement strategy is a “them” problem, not a “you” problem.
If you’re the one feeling tempted to ghost someone:
Evaluate which kind of ghost you are:
Avoidant - avoidant of any conflict.
Lazy - can’t be bothered with anything, even if it’s the fair thing to do.
Mean - doesn’t care about the feelings of others.
Half-ghost - may float back in and out of someone’s life at their leisure.
Reflect on the relationship and consider why you feel it’s easiest to ghost this person. Also consider that telling them you’re not interested might be the kindest solution. Being direct is difficult, but ultimately usually the best way.
If you’re in an abusive or dangerous situation, cut it off immediately. Your own health and wellbeing are the most important.
Transcript
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Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory podcast, we're talking about a spooky and scary topic "ghosting." That's right. Maybe you've done it. Maybe it's happened to you. Maybe you've just heard about it on the Internet, but ghosting has become a pretty popular option for ending a relationship these days. We're going to talk in this episode about why people ghost, what are the pros and the cons of ghosting, as well as what to do if you've been ghosted and what to do if you might feel the urge to get your ghost on yourself.
Emily: To get your ghost on, I love it.
Dedeker: Yes, I love that phrase. I wish it kind of goes against the spirit of this episode's spirit. I feel that I've picked up from speaking with clients especially who are currently in the dating scene in the midst of this pandemic that we're dealing with as at the time of this recording that I do feel like ghosting is still alive and well in the dating scene, especially now as more and more people are essentially forced to move to dating online.
Emily: Yes and it's probably even easier to do right now because that is often the only method of communication that people are going through is virtually. Not necessarily like in-person. Yes, it's probably quite popular. Well, have any of you ghosted/been ghosted?
Dedeker: Oh gosh, let me count the ways. Let me count the ways. Yes, both on the receiving end, giving end for sure, especially when I think back to my early days of online dating. I mean, I don't know. When I was younger than I am now, I feel like I was already really set up to be very confrontation avoidant in most cases and in most relationships, especially a dating relationship, and very avoidant of honest communication in general.
To me, for a long time, it really just didn't feel like a viable option to just honestly say to someone, "Actually I don't think we're that compatible or I'm not that interested or I'm genuinely too busy to start a relationship right now," that you had to just find some way to slip out unnoticed.
Emily: Interesting.
Jase: Right. Yes, just slip out while they're at the store buying cigarettes.
Jase: Trying to get
Emily: Jase, did you do it? There you go. Or has it been done to you?
Jase: I think ghosting has sort of evolved over time because I think the thing of just kind of gradually becoming less available and less responsive has been around a lot longer than what we refer to now as ghosting, which usually would then lead to someone being like, "Hey, so I guess you're not interested in me anymore." Eventually getting to some sort of or having them break up with you because you're not available enough for something. It was like a way to cause a breakup.
Then, I think in modern time, it just became like a full ghost rather than this sort of ghost with a goal of a breakup. It's just the full-on ghost and now that is the breakup itself. That's kind of evolved. I've definitely done that first one and had that first one done to me. As far as like the modern, just like complete ghosting, not as much, but yes, a couple of times where someone has just disappeared.
Dedeker: Gosh, I've definitely-- I think the last time I recall being ghosted was the last time that I was on Japanese Tinder a few years back, where I thought I had developed some rapport with this guy, and he shared with me a link to his new YouTube channel and stuff like that.
Emily: I remember this.
Dedeker: The weird thing is that even after he ghosted me, I still subscribed to his YouTube channel for a long time. Not in a weird, desperate kind of way, I promise. I promise not in a weird, desperate kind of way, but just I kept forgetting, that I was like, "Oh, right, this YouTube channel is still a thing." Then, I didn't unsubscribe until finally I became more savvy in the ways of Japanese YouTube and realized that his channel wasn't that good. It was just kind of spoofing other popular channels. Anyway, that's my story, you're welcome.
Emily: I just want to say my very sad ghost story. Maybe I've ghosted people, not that I really recall, perhaps like petering off for sure, as Jase was talking about. I was very excited about this woman on OkCupid, and it was early in my non-monogamy journey. I think you two definitely remember this story, maybe.
Jase: I remember this, yes.
Emily: We were hitting it off, she was into Led Zeppelin, super adorable and just seemed fun and very queer and very excited, maybe to talk more. Then, I asked, I was like, "Well, let's meet up and maybe go for coffee or can I take you to lunch or something?" Then, radio silence. I'm like, "What?" It was really sad. I was so sad.
Jase: I know. I remember for a while after that, you were still like, "But should I message her again? "
Emily: You're like, "Just, just--"
Jase: I will say as far as the being ghosted thing goes or maybe even ghosting other people, that in those early phases of talking to someone online, I'd say that happens a ton to me, definitely that. It's like you're a couple of conversations in and then they just disappear and it's always like, "Did I do something? What happened? I don't know what it is."
Emily: Yes. We'll get into that a little bit as the episode goes on.
Dedeker: My partner Alex has been telling me his trials and tribulations of online dating during the time of COVID. At least according to him, his anecdotal experience has been that conversations are much shorter these days, that there's a lot more people just really dropping off the face of the planet much faster. He thinks that it's just because people are bored and lonely and are just trying to cycle through and get some kind of contact. That may be because there's just a higher volume of people just trying to grind on through all that and maybe that means there's just more people being impatient. I don't know. I have not tested it serious.
Jase: I think in general with online dating, people often go through this kind of, "I'm bored and/or lonely and/or something else right now, so I'm going to get on online dating." Then, they get busy again or they hang out with their friends more and just forget about it for a while, which can sometimes cause something that seems like ghosting and then maybe two months later or three months later, you'll get a message from someone being like, "Hey, sorry. I disappeared. I got busy or whatever." I think it's really just because it's like, "I'm not really thinking about online dating now." I bet right now during lockdown, that's something that for a lot of people is going on. It's like busy and then not busy.
Dedeker: Oh, yes, probably as people's job situations change and parenting situations change and school situations change. Yes, that makes sense. I think we all probably have a rough understanding of what ghosting refers to, but just in case, here's the official urban dictionary
Jase: yes, urban dictionary.
Dedeker: "When a person cuts off all communication with their friends or the person they're dating, with zero warning or notice beforehand. You'll mostly see them avoiding friends' phone calls, social media, and avoiding them in public." There are a couple of other terms floating around out there. There's breadcrumbing, which is defined as the act of sending out flirtatious, yet non-committal text messages, i.e., "breadcrumbs" in order to lure a partner or sexual partner without having to expend too much effort or when you have no real intention of taking things further but you still want the intention or you still want to keep the option open.
That sounds like maybe a little bit of what you were talking about, Jase, with the petering out to a certain extent potentially.
Jase: Maybe, I feel like the petering out is more just wanting to break up but being too cowardly to do it. It's just kind of slowly ducking away.
Emily: Breadcrumbing is kind of like the dangling carrot.
Jase: Right. It's a little bit different intention I think.
Dedeker: Maybe in a not very honest or direct way, trying to keep your options open-
Jase: Maybe, yes.
Dedeker: -that might be out there trying to stimulate the interest just enough to keep them going. There's also the term submarining that I've heard, which is when someone ghosts you, they disappear and then you hear absolute radio silence for several months or even longer sometimes and then I don't know where-- There they are messaging you in the middle of the night asking if you're up and how you're doing and things like that, has that ever happened to the two of you?
Jase: Oh, yes. Definitely.
Emily: Yes. I feel like, "Have I done that? Maybe. Yes, I've probably done that before." Again, back in my youth, I feel like-- Since Jase, I've been in two really long-term relationships and that's been the last 10 years of my life, with a bunch of lovely non-monogamous relationships here and there as well.
Jase: But less of the intentional online dating, I guess.
Emily: Yes. I haven't really online dated as much as probably the two of you have, so you're the experts here, well done.
Dedeker: Oh, boy. Great.
Jase: Cool.
Emily: All right. We want to get into some statistics and studies regarding ghosting. There have been actually a lot of conflicting studies and statistics out there. I found some that said, like, "17% of all people have ghosted or been ghosted," which seemed really low and then others said, like, "50%," which still seemed fairly low, honestly. I feel like most people I know have done this at least within our age group, they have. I found this fun infographic. It's a website with multiple infographics talking about online dating and specifically ghosting. They surveyed millennials aged 18 to 35, so sorry, Jase, you're out of there, bye.
Jase: I don't count in this.
Emily: Yes. They found a bunch of different interesting statistics, so take it away, Dedeker.
Dedeker: Yes. This is specifically the site that put to get this infographic and ran the study was called bankmycell.com. I don't think this is what their main business model is about, but they have this information. According to them, 82% of women and 71% of men have been involved in ghosting at some point in their lives. By involved in ghosting, they mean either on the receiving end or doing it to somebody else, which is a big chunk. I would be inclined to believe this feels accurate to me. I know that sounds good-
Emily: Yes, it feels accurate.
Dedeker: -marker of scientific accuracy, but it does feel very accurate anecdotally of just-- It feels like yes. This is a situation that most of us out there have experienced in some way.
Emily: 18 to 35, that seems like that group of people absolutely is probably online dating.
Jase: The prime ghosting age group and online dating age group, yes, totally. In addition to just asking if you've been involved in ghosting, they asked people their top reasons for ghosting. They broke this down by men and women. For women, the top three reasons for ghosting, 50% was to avoid confrontation, 17% ghosted people because they didn't live up to their profile photos.
Emily: I guess when they saw them in real life?
Jase: Or they texted them other images or something or they became friends on Facebook and found more photos of them or something. For whatever reason, they didn't live up to their profile photos. Then, 10% ghosted because they perceived the other person as being too clingy or needy. Then for men, actually the same first, second, and third place. The percentages are just a little bit different.
For men, 38% was to avoid confrontation, 28% was for not living up to their profile pictures. So, a little bit less on the avoiding confrontation but more on the not living up to your profile picture. Then 16% for the other person becoming clingy or needy. I thought it's interesting in a lot of these that between men and women, the reasons are very similar even if the ratios are a little bit off but still the top ones are still the top ones. Unfortunately, the people doing this study clearly did not take into account any other gender options besides men and women but there you have it.
Dedeker: I think that even just looking at these results, these tops reasons, already generates a lot of interesting questions and conversations. First of them being the fact that people generally want to avoid confrontation, and so that's why they ghost. I don't want anyone to take this as me defending ghosting by any means, but I do think that women often have a little bit more of an incentive to ghost than men do, mostly because there's--
Emily: According to the statistics, yes.
Dedeker: Well but unfortunately, there's just a historical precedent of like, for a lot of women, if they directly communicate with a guy of like, "Hey, actually I'm not into it or I'm not feeling it or I'm not interested in this relationship or I want to end this relationship," especially if it's someone you don't know, you don't know if they're going to fly off the handle and start flinging verbal abuse at you or worse.
I've definitely experienced that in real-life. A lot of people I know have experienced that in real-life. I think that it's interesting, this seems like a catch-all by talking about avoiding confrontation. That it's like both the potentially really scary confrontation of this person may get really, really mad at me or the maybe less scary confrontation of this may just be an uncomfortable conversation.
Jase: Right. That even if it's not actively aggressive response to it, but there is still that, like, "But why? But why? But no, but like this," and having to convince them why you're breaking up with them sucks. I could see a valid argument being made for something about our culture of handling rejection being a cause of ghosting becoming such a popular option. There's a good PhD paper for those of you sociologists out there.
Emily: Oh, for sure. I saw a Twitter post. It was like, the headline said, in the post below, "Flirt with me like a guy would." It said, "Hey, hey, hi, hey, bitch," and that was it and there you go.
Jase: Yes.
Dedeker: Yes, classic. The other thing that seems really interesting to me is the fact that in the top three is ghosting because they see the other person is too clingy or needy. Again, this feels like such a big catch-all of response because I do agree that you can be very put off if someone is maybe a little too hot, too heavy, too fast, too intense, truly hitting you up way too much early on. But I do think this also shows that we really have this big cultural fear around being emotionally vulnerable early on in the dating process because we don't want to seem clingy or needy. That's like the worst thing, especially for women.
Jase: Right, yes.
Emily: Yes. Let's move on to some studies that discussed why people ghost. I found this study that had the most amazing title I've ever heard in a study in my life, and it was called, "When Your Boo Becomes a Ghost."
Dedeker: Aw.
Jase: So good.
Emily: So freaking good.
Jase: I'm mad that they came up with that because that should have been the title of this episode, but someone else beat us to it.
Emily: Yes, a study by these people, exactly. It laid out a few reasons why people might ghost. The first one was something that we've already talked about, that it allows the person to disengage from the relationship to avoid feeling like they're actively hurting the recipient, the other party, because they're not directly communicating that they're no longer interested in the relationship. It's kind of like an easy way out in essence, which does make sense, especially if you don't really know how to handle it or maybe you're not that into them or something. It's just like, "Well, I'm going to just drop off, and I'm done with this."
Jase: It's interesting, a thought that just came to mind about that is that I feel like the old-fashion way to do that move was to tell someone that you're casually dating, that you're now exclusive with someone else. I could see how in online dating, you kind of can't do that, lie as easily anymore because they still see you on the online dating site or-
Emily: That's a really good point.
Jase: -on social media or whatever. It's like, "Okay, I can tell that I was lied to." Maybe ghosting sort of grew out of this, "Well, that option didn't work anymore," because it was the way to get out of it without having to say, "I don't want to be with you, I'm just now not available." That was kind of a cop out before. Then, we've talked before on this show about how non-monogamy also kind of eliminates that option for you as well. It's not like, "Well, I'm not available because I'm seeing someone." It's, "No. I'm still available-"
Emily: "But I just don't want to see you."
Jase: "But I just don't want to see you," yes. That is a harder thing to say to someone, I think.
Emily: Definitely.
Dedeker: Yes. Other things, other reasons that this study laid out include just the fact that it's really easy to do basically because so much of our communication is based on technology now that it's easy to block somebody. It's really easy to completely scrub someone from your life, from your sphere if you want to.
Emily: Even on your phone, you can block a number and then bye-bye.
Dedeker: Yes, super easy. Combined with that, it has become a fairly normative thing to do. I think people know when they're getting into online dating now that this is a possibility. They know when they're starting to create a relationship with somebody that this is a possibility. I've worked with many people who now carry this weird compound, almost trauma, for being ghosted so many times that that starts to affect their future dating endeavors, I don't know, it's just become such a normal thing in the culture and I think because so many of us have personal experiences with this that it has also become normative.
Jase: Yes, for sure. I think that there is that case where someone even just doesn't get back to you for a couple of days because they may just be busy or have other things going on. People will overreact to that and freak out and do the verbal abuse, like you said, in response to being ghosted, even though that's not really what the person was intending to do. Yes, there's a lot of levels of, I guess trauma is the word for it, but yes, just levels of reactions and compounding things that goes into it.
Research has also shown that when people do ghost, they're fairly disinterested in the relationship that they're exiting. That seems like a no-brainer, but there is something to be said. It's like if you want to still maintain some kind of friendly relationship or some type of relationship with this person, ghosting, it's not going to be a good option for that. So, that makes sense. Then, time is also a factor.
Generally, the relationship has only been six months or less if the person ghosts, or maybe another way to phrase that would be if the relationship has been six months or less, there's a higher chance that someone is going to ghost out of that. Whereas, if it's longer, probably just because by the time it's longer, it's harder to do. Like Dedeker pointed out--
Emily: Well, there's maybe more emotional involvement.
Jase: Yes, I think that too. But even without that, it's like, if you've been together for a while, you probably know a lot more people in common now. You probably have more shared friends or you've become friends with each other's friends, things like that where ghosting is just harder all of a sudden, as opposed to, I think in addition to the fact that we communicate now through our phones and through social media a lot more and it's easy to just block or remove someone from your contacts or something, that there's also this aspect of we're meeting people now online who are completely outside of our social circle or at least we have that option.
It's like, "I didn't meet them at a friend's party. They weren't introduced to me by a mutual friend. We just met through algorithms online. So, yes, I can just ghost you, and there's no one you can check in with." There's no mutual friends to be like, "Hey, what happened with this?" There's no accountability. Yes, I think that also made ghosting an option. That also makes sense why that short time-frame is more likely to involve ghosting.
Dedeker: Yes. Some other reasons that were pointed out by specifically an article in Psychology Today, include the fact that, like you're saying, Jase, if two people meet online, there's that lack of social connections that the two of them share mutually, which makes it easier for one person to go see other and not have to face any social consequences. "I don't have to face the risk of running into you at the next party after I've stopped talking to you because we probably have completely separate lives and completely separate social circles."
Also, the fact that, again, as it's becoming more normative, people are becoming slightly more desensitized to ghosting. That doesn't mean that there's no emotional effects from it or there's no impact whatsoever, but again, like we said, people are coming to expect it or expect it as a possibility. If it's happened to you before, especially if it's happened more than once, you are also more likely to then do it to somebody else. It reminds me of-- It's a kind of thing of like if a place when you show up is already dirty and has like litter everywhere or graffiti or stuff, that people are more likely to then contribute to the problem rather than not.
If a place is absolutely pristine, you're going to feel more self-pressure to put your trash in the garbage or clean up after yourself if everyone before you has not. I think this is another example of that of the dating landscape hygiene is not very good and standards are very low.
Emily: The Psychology Today article talked about something called perceived obligation and how that varies based on person to person. I've definitely been in relationships where I've been super, super head over heels for someone and they've been like, "eh" about me, but it sucked. Because of that, it's perceived obligation of how emotionally intimate or physically intimate-- Well, probably just emotionally intimate. I don't know. Maybe someone can perceive your physical intimacy, like maybe you can get into a relationship and have physical intimacy and somebody can be like, "That wasn't really that big of a deal to me," but you can feel very intense and excited about it, totally.
Jase: Yes, 100%. I've absolutely been on both sides of that, where the physical intimacy for one person is like, "Wow, this is really something," and for the other person, it's just kind of-- I've been on both sides of that and it sucks.
Dedeker: Yes, me too, and it sucks.
Emily: Yes. Well and so along those lines, if you're on the side of like, "eh," either of those scenarios, then it might be easier for you to ghost, and for, unfortunately, the other person to feel real shitty. We're going to get a little bit more into the pros and cons of ghosting, of which there are a few, even pros, which is interesting. We're going to talk about some of those.
Then also what to do if you've been ghosted or if you feel like ghosting yourself, but first, we are going to talk about some ways that you can help us continue to make this show free for all of you out there. Now ,we're going to talk about the pros of ghosting. This we spoke about a little bit before, but the ghost gets out of having to directly communicate and face the partner head-on that they are ghosting, that they want to end the relationship with or just-- They're like, "I don't need to do that. I can just get out of it without having to do that confrontation in any way." For the one who is doing the ghosting, this might be an easy, nice way out for them.
Dedeker: Yes, it is funny. The main pros is like, yes, it is an easy way out, you can't debate that. Easy for you who's doing the ghosting. It is an easy way out. That is correct. That is a pro to consider, but you might also be a shitbag potentially for doing it.
Jase: Yes.
Dedeker: We'll get into that later. I do think that in some instances of abuse, if you're on the receiving end of abuse, leaving a partner and ghosting them can possibly be the safest option for the person who is being abused.
This is something that literally has come up when I've worked with clients who are leaving abusive relationships. Usually what I hear from people is there's a lot of guilt around that of like, "Oh, I can't just not talk to him. I can't just not respond to her message." There's still that sense of like, "That's guilt. That's bad manners. That's bad digital communication manners to just ghost somebody," but I do think that in instances where you're being abused in some way, have at it, ghost away. Let your little ghost spirits run free.
That means, anytime that you're feeling truly unsafe by someone's behavior, if you're subject to verbal, emotional, physical abuse by a partner, if someone is violating boundaries in a way that makes you feel unsafe and where communicating to the person is not going to help, I think that's an important thing, that if someone violates your boundaries, it's up to you whether or not it feels like if you say something that that's going to help.
Even if it's like saying something to them, like, "Hey, this crossed the boundary for me. It made me feel not okay, and for that reason, I don't think I can continue the relationship with you." Even saying that if it feels like saying something is going to open you up to more abuse or more boundary-violating, then, yes, that's probably okay to just leave it there and ghost them.
Emily: Yes, this Psychology Today article gave the example of if somebody is coming to your place of work, for example, and showing up or being maybe abusive or confrontational or something, that perhaps that's a good indication that a boundary is being violated and that's not okay.
Dedeker: Yes.
Jase: Yes. I mean, in that case, we don't need to get into this too much, but in that case though, your ghosting will probably only be the first step in that process then if they are someone who's actually showing up to your place of work or things like that. I think Dedeker's point of just if that's the situation that you're in where you feel unsafe or there's abuse going on, getting out of it in any way is better than staying in it. So, if ghosting is the easiest and safest way to do that, then yes. Heck yes, go for it.
Dedeker: Also, if someone is actively lying to you, manipulating you, showing a direct disregard for your emotional well-being, basically the point that we're trying to get here is that like, if someone has been shitty to you, truly shitty to you and making your life miserable, like you do not owe them anything, I think other than getting yourself out, getting yourself safe, getting yourself away, and you don't need to feel bad about not communicating with this person anymore.
Jase: Yes, definitely. As far as another pro for the person who has been ghosted, sometimes breakups offer a much-needed opportunity for individuals to examine themselves and to change and develop in constructive ways. I personally think that this pro to ghosting is a little bit bullshit because it's more just like a pro to being broken up with, not specifically about ghosting, but it's worth mentioning at least.
Emily: I know. It's funny because of course, when you look at these articles that are talking about, like, "Well, you know what, girl, you're better off. It's fine." Essentially that's what that is but there is something to be said for that, I think of saying like, "Hey, maybe I can worry about myself and work on myself and not have that negative energy in my life" and that's not a bad thing.
Jase: Yes, I would say that maybe another way of looking at that, another pro for the one being ghosted, especially if this happens earlier on is, "Okay, at least I've learned earlier than later how highly this person regards me in terms of my relationship and their respect for me," meaning not very much. Yes, you're better off without that. I would also say that, like if someone ghosted you, it's like, this is not a person that you can probably expect real good communication with, at least with you. They don't regard you highly enough to treat you with respect that way. Or they're afraid of you, in which case, that's a wake-up call as well. Any number of reasons, so there's that.
In other ones, the person being ghosted, sometimes in the research, they found that the person being ghosted also doesn't care that much about the relationship, in which case, it's like "Oh, they ghosted so I didn't have to" or maybe you're someone who isn't comfortable with doing ghosting and it's like, "Oh, well, okay, they ghosted me, so at least I don't have to have that breakup conversation with them." Yes, that also can be a pro, I guess. for some of these .
Emily: I don't know, this came from the Boo Becoming a Ghost and they talked to some of the respondents about this. They said, "Well, when I've been ghosted, especially really early on in our relationship, sometimes it's nice to not have to hear why this person doesn't like me and it's kind sparing my feelings a little bit." So, they don't have to directly face the reasons why the relationship is ending, especially when it's someone that you don't know that well, sometimes it's kind of nice. It depends on the person.
Dedeker: I can see that. Yes, it just seems to depend on your personality and preferences. If I can reduce having to hear from someone, "I just don't find you that attractive" or I can reduce having to hear from somebody, "I'm just not feeling the spark," and well, that's kind of a bummer. That maybe for some people, the bummer of being ghosted feels like less of a bummer than the bummer of hearing why this person isn't interested in them. I guess I could see that. Let's talk about the cons of ghosting. Some of them probably seem fairly obvious, but some of these are actually researched facts.
Multiple studies have shown that those who disengage from a relationship, report less distress than those who've been broken up with. As in if you're the dumper, chances are, you're feeling less emotional distress than the dumpee. That's not necessarily a rule for all situations, but it seems like research shows that's a general trend. However, for breakups that did involve an actual certain amount of conversation at the time of the breakup, did allow for closure for both individuals.
Basically, by ghosting, you're robbing both of you of the opportunity to have something close to closure. I think closure is a tricky topic, we could probably do a whole episode on closure and whether or not you can get it truly or whether it's appropriate to get or things like that, but I do think that being able to communicate around a breakup can help set the stage for both of you moving on and healing, ideally.
Emily: Yes, you're essentially depriving someone that opportunity for closure or having a closing conversation or something of that nature if you just ghost. There's a lot of potential sadness and anger and feelings of rejection and depression. These studies have found that those things happen once somebody gets ghosted because they don't know what happened here, like what just went wrong, was it me? Was it them? Are they dead? What's happening? Like I don't know. There's a lot of challenging components of that and that is a big con of ghosting for the person who gets ghosted. It sucks.
Jase: Yes, definitely.
Dedeker: Yes. That kind of questioning of going back and forth has been like, "Oh gosh, did something happen to them? Or are they ghosting me? Is it something I said? Do I smell really bad? Did I do something wrong? Should I apologize to them? Should I reach out?" That kind of questioning ultimately causes the recipient of ghosting to question not only themselves, but also just their personal judgment.
Emily: "I should have seen this coming."
Dedeker: Yes, it can just cause a lot of questioning and suffering. I imagine that maybe in some instances, that kind of questioning could be helpful for someone, maybe someone who needs a reality check of, "Was I super inappropriate, then?" Maybe that kind of self-questioning could be helpful, but I think that for most instances and for a lot of people, it brings in all these questions that just serve to fill up your mind and cause suffering and ruin your day.
Jase: Yes, I think that another sort of con here is that, like we mentioned earlier about connecting online, you generally won't have a lot of mutual acquaintances and things like that which makes ghosting an option. However, the experience that I've definitely had, and I think you two have as well is that the world really isn't quite as big and anonymous and disconnected as it seems at first, that quite often, even a year or two later, you might then meet some mutual acquaintance of someone or they will or you want to start dating someone--
Dedeker: Especially if you were dating in the kink scene or the non-monogamy scene or any kind of niche dating community--
Jase: LARPing community or the historical reenactment--
Emily: community.
Dedeker: Yes, it's going to happen. It is going to happen.
Jase: It will happen, and if you think about that, even if it's pretty early on and you have a breakup that does involve some honesty and some closure, even if that's harder at first, if you then sometime later are dating someone who might know them, and that topic comes up, even if you have that breakup and it kind of sucked, they might be like, "Yes, we had this breakup, and it was hurtful or something," or maybe they won't.
Maybe they'll be like, "Yes, I was bummed about it for a little bit, but usually, we get over these things after a while, especially if it's a shorter-term relationship." It's like, "They were cool. Sure, go for it." But if you ghosted them, it's like, "Hmm, this person just completely disappeared on me. Don't trust them. I wouldn't be in a relationship with them." You are kind of poisoning the well, as it were.
Emily: It's like in the language episode when we were talking about primacy. You're priming that person to not want to go out with the person who ghosted you because, "Wow, they're a ghoster, they're not to be trusted." Ghostbuster.
Jase: Can't trust ghosts, yes. I guess just that your actions aren't as free of consequences you might think. I'd say the same is true for things like ghosting an employer. That happened to us a couple of years ago where someone ghosted on us, but you can guarantee if anyone in my social circle or professional circles ever comes across hiring that person, I'll be honest and just be, "Yes, they were great, but they ghosted, and I would never hire them again, nor would I want anyone else to." That's going to happen. That's just a consequence of being a shitbag bad communicator.
It does have the potential to come back, especially if it's something you're doing often. Now, what to do if you've been ghosted? I think the question I think that comes up the most is, do I keep trying to reach out to them? We gave the example earlier, Emily, with that woman that you were talking to online, who then ghosted you. I remember for a long time after that, was this constant question of, "Do I send another message? Do I--?" I've been through that too of I don't know how to proceed, "Are they okay? Should I keep reaching out? Are they maybe busy, and I should give them some time and then reach out? Or is this a clear indication that they're just not interested?"
Emily: Yes. I did the thing of, "Oh, I haven't heard from you in a bit. We can definitely take it back a little bit, and we don't have to go out and can keep talking." I did that one more time, and it was clear that nothing was happening. I was like, "Well, that's a wash. Not going to happen."
Jase: This one is hard to give just hard and clear advice on, but as a general thing, our recommendation would be to once you get the sense that you're being ghosted or that that might be happening, is to reach out once and check in about that. If nothing happens from that, don't then try to guess for them what you might have done wrong or something like that, even if there is some reason why they're gone, doing that isn't going to help the problem, like they just got busy or something came up in their family, they'll come back.
When they come back, if they will, but they probably won't. Gosh, you know what? Actually, I just remembered that this happened to me years ago, even before it was more social media, and actually just calling, that there was someone in beauty school that I was really into, and we'd gone on a couple of dates and then I went on a trip with my family and ended up probably leaving her 10 voicemails or something.
Dedeker: Oh, no, Jase.
Jase: It wasn't like being like, "You jerk, I hate you," and then the next message being like, "I'm so sorry. I love you." It wasn't like that kind of thing. It was just leaving another message, being like, "Hey, I was checking in again. I hope you're all right." It's just thinking about how it looks from the other side. I'm like, "That's shitty. That sucks." It didn't make me look good then either, even though I was being ghosted. It's just best to not. Do the one reach-out and then leave it as hard as that is.
Dedeker: I like to follow the NVC formula for this, non-violent communication formula for this as in just clearly stating the observation as clear as possible without any spin. As in instead of, "Hey, you dropped off the face of the planet or hey, it's been radio silence." Saying things like, "Hey, so I haven't heard from you in two weeks, and I have some question marks around that," and I will often just go ahead and be like, "I'm wondering if you're just too busy or if you feeling this isn't a thing." I tend to default on the side of giving them an out, honestly, because-
Emily: That's smart.
Dedeker: -you don't have to. Some people say, "No, don't do that," but I'm just like whatever. I think this is going to be a more pleasant interaction if I let them save face, especially if I suspect that this person is maybe just not that interested in me, but if I can at least let them save face, maybe that's going to lay a foundation for at least us not feeling awkward and weird, especially if we run into each other in a social setting again. I do that. Some people say not to do that. I think it's just up to you.
Jase: Maybe just sort of, "I noticed. I haven't heard from you in a while. It feels to me like this might be ghosting, but I don't really know you well enough to know for sure that that would be the case." Respond with a ghost emoji if it is.
Emily: Ghost emoji Y or N.
Dedeker: Oh, man
Jase: That's good too. I like that.
Dedeker: I really wish--
Emily: Ghost: Y or N, checkbox.
Dedeker: I really wish that was in the cultural zeitgeist. Can you imagine if that was just the accepted cultural tool of checking?
Emily: Would be helpful.
Dedeker: Yes.
Jase: Yes. Ghost emoji: Y/N. That's brilliant. I like that a lot.
Emily: Thank you. Yeah patent that shit.
Jase: Boy. Then in the event that you are pretty sure that you've been ghosted, is like with any breakup, but I think specifically with ghosting, where they've cut you out entirely, is that it's okay, and actually probably recommended that you do the same actually, is just remove reminders of this person. Generally, like we said, these are going to happen in somewhat shorter-term relationships too. A lot of times, our baggage is around the future that we thought we might have had with this person and dwelling on that when someone has made it clear that this is the level of regard that they have for you in this relationship isn't going to do you any good.
That's not going to make you feel good. It's okay, just get rid of those reminders of the person. That might mean unfollowing or even blocking them on social media if they haven't already done that to you, deleting your old texts with them. Stop looking at pictures of the two of you. I know it's easier said than done. It sounds very simple when you say it and then it's hard to actually do in real-life.
Really, in those moments of clarity, take away the temptation. Just get rid of the things because when it's the middle of the night and you've been drinking or you're tired and sad, that's when you're going to look through those, and if in your better moments, you've already deleted them or blocked them or whatever, or deleted their contact information, that's not going to be an option.
Dedeker: Unsubscribe from their mediocre YouTube channel.
Jase: Right. Yes.
Emily: Or in my case, don't look at pictures of their baby. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Dedeker: Emily, you're the worst at that.
Emily: I know, I'm such a Pisces, I know. Blame it on the Pisces.
Dedeker: Another thing is like we reviewed a little bit earlier is you can realize that this is probably an indication of a red flag. This is probably a sign of emotional unavailability or if not even emotional unavailability, just time unavailability. If this person truly, truly, truly is so busy, they can't respond to your text until two weeks later, you're probably not going to have a relationship with them that feels very good.
It's a clue as to what might have been coming had that relationship actually continued. This could be a sign. This person is super conflict-avoidant. It is okay to also consider the positive that if you've been ghosted, it sucks. It feels bad. Take care of yourself and remember that maybe this is dodging a bullet to a certain extent.
Emily: As with any breakup, this is definitely a time to have some self-love and self-care. Maybe have some reflection but be around people who make you feel good about yourself, who lift you up, take a bath, masturbate, watch your favorite show. It's hard to be around people right now, but do a Zoom call, have a Zoom cocktail hour. Just understand, often, there's sometimes just like a disengagement strategy that someone wants to go through. Sometimes, it's like, "It's not you, it's them."
This is the best way that they know how to let go. That's kind of unfortunate, but that's the best way that they know how to let go. You yourself, you let it go. You let it go too. Enjoy your life. It's better off without them.
Dedeker: Let's talk about a trickier topic, which is, what do you do if you personally are feeling tempted to ghost somebody?
Jase: Feeling yourself drawn to the spiritual realm.
Dedeker: Yes. Spiritualism.
Emily: "I want to be a ghost."
Dedeker: Again, this is outside a situation where you're escaping some very clearly abusive, toxic dynamic, there's this great Medium article that puts ghosts into four categories, which I think is really interesting to think about. I'm really curious to hear from all you all what you think about this, all you all listeners out there. If you've ghosted somebody in the past, what kind of ghost you were in that situation? These are the four types of ghosts that they lay out.
Emily: They each have little hats.
Dedeker: The avoidant ghost, as in the person who's going to run away from any kind of conflict, avoid conflicts at all cost. There's the lazy ghost, who is just lazy, can't be bothered with doing anything hard, including being nice to someone or decent or going through the discomfort of being honest with somebody. There's the mean ghost. Truly, maybe this is like the shitbag category, the person who really doesn't care at all about anybody else's feelings, has no qualms about ghosting, dropping off the face of the planet, things like that. There's the half-ghost, someone who is born to a human father and a ghost mother.
Jase: I did not see that coming. Oh God.
Dedeker: That's not what it is. The half-ghost according to them is someone who may float back and forth in your life or likes to keep their options open. Maybe this
Emily: Like submarining.
Dedeker: Breadcrumbing or submarining or something like that, the half-ghost.
Jase: I think submariner is how we would call that.
Emily: An episode rife with fun and jokes
Dedeker: I think it's really important to look at a list like this of all the different motivations for ghosting and just reflect on the relationship so far, evaluate the reasons why you feel it's easiest to ghost this person. Is this related to your past relationships? Is this related to something from your family of origin? Is this part of your own baggage? I think this is a really good opportunity to really hold up a mirror and get really honest with yourself of am I tempted to ghost this person because I'm just lazy and I don't want to have a hard conversation or do I have a ghost mom? I don't know.
Jase: Oh gosh,
Dedeker: "My ghost mom always taught me to disappear when things are difficult." I don't know.
Emily: There you go.
Jase: I see.
Emily: A lot of baggage there with your ghost mom.
Jase: Then, after you've spent that time considering, is to then ponder telling that person that you just aren't interested in them and that that might actually be the kind of solution. Even if it feels hard at first, it's like the tearing the band-aid off fast as opposed to slow. On a side note, there have been studies on that which are super interesting that, basically scientifically proven that taking the Band-Aid off faster even if it causes more pain over a shorter amount of time, ultimately results in less experience of pain for the person enduring it.
Dedeker: Wow, okay, science says rip the Band-Aid off.
Jase: Science says rip it off, yes. I mean, don't rip your skin off with it, but do it as fast as you can do safely, and to consider being direct. Sometimes, it's hard to assess our feelings and figure out why we just aren't interested in someone, but if you are able to, sometimes being direct is the kinder thing to do ultimately, even if it feels kind of shitty at first and it sucks for them to hear it, at least it's done and it's clear. But as we said before, if you're in an abusive or dangerous situation, just do whatever is going to keep you the safest. If that's ghosting, heck yes, do it. Your health and well-being should ultimately be your number one priority.
Dedeker: I also want to point out, I think that some people can really be tempted to ghost or not want to be direct about these things because they feel like, "Ah, then it's going to start this big conversation. I'm going to have to really lay out my reasons why or this person is going to try to argue with me on it." My personal opinion is you can step up and be honest and just say something like, "You know what? I'm just not feeling the spark, and I'm not interested in seeing you anymore." You do not have to give your reasons.
Emily: That's reason enough.
Dedeker: Maybe if you're open to having a conversation with that person or you think that they're open to hearing it, maybe you can have a conversation, but if someone takes that and then it's like, "Well, why? Well, why? Well, why?" Then slipping into toxic and abusive behavior, trying to force you to explain why or defend yourself or are trying to debate you. You don't have to do that.
I say trust in your own boundaries of like, be honest, but know that you don't have to get into a big, long protracted conversation with this person needing to defend your reasons why. I think that if you trust in that and you know that, in my experience, it makes a little bit easier to just be honest, because you're not then trying to ghost in order to avoid having this really long extended conversation, that's not fun for anybody.
Jase: Something else to consider is if you're in a situation where you feel like ghosting could be an option, if you are direct and they keep asking all these questions or they keep trying to convince you why you should still date them, that ghosting option is still there, right?
Dedeker: I guess that's true.
Jase: You can still block at that point and at least you've been clear first. Then, you still can do that eventually but give people I guess the benefit of the doubt upfront before resorting to that option.
Emily: Yes, that's a good way to look at it. Well, we hope that you learned a thing or two about ghost today and