334 - What Makes a Good Hinge Partner
Good hinges
A hinge partner (the partner in common in a v-style polyamorous relationship) sometimes has some unique responsibilities and struggles when it comes to the health of the relationships.
Some benefits that hinge partners receive are:
Double emotional support (receiving).
A lot of the usual party line benefits of polyamory.
A sense of stability or a safety net.
Extra birthday gifts.
On the other hand, there are also unique struggles:
Double emotional support (giving).
Keeping everybody else happy.
Sacrificing self time and self care.
Paying for double birthday gifts.
Managing the image.
Some common pitfalls for hinges:
Defaulting to people-please behavior.
Over/undersharing information.
Bad PR.
Forcing metamour relationships to look a certain way.
Double dipping/maximizing efficiency.
Triangulation.
Everything is a triangle
Triangulation is often associated with Murray Bowen, who theorized that when a two-person emotional system is under stress, it forms into a three-person system or triangle. The third person can either be used as a substitute for direct communication, or possibly be used as a messenger. In a relationship like this, the two aligned people risk becoming enmeshed, which results in diffusion of boundaries and loss of autonomous development.
Another definition of triangulation is from Josephine Ferraro, and occurs when unhealthy alliances form between two people and a third. For hinges, this could look like the hinge with another partner against the third, or two partners against the hinge.
Being a good hinge
To be a good hinge partner:
Have external sources or support that are not partners, such as a trusted friend, mentor, or professional.
Have a good sense of time management and scheduling.
Have good time awareness and communication.
Follow through on plans and don’t cancel for non-emergencies.
Have boundaries you can express and uphold.
Do not compare partners to each other in negative ways.
Have a sensitivity around structural imbalances across relationships.
Share information across the relationships appropriately and ethically.
Be aware of what belongs to you.
Transcript
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Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, it's all about the hinge. In non-monogamy, V-style relationships are common. Many people have the experience of being the hinge partner in the middle of that V. However, not a lot of people talk about the unique responsibilities and struggles for that partner who's connecting the two others.
Today, we're going to take a look at the role of the hinge in more detail including the unique benefits and difficulties inherent in being a hinge, some common pitfalls, and some specific skills that you can use to be a good hinge. No squeaks.
Dedeker: A well-oiled hinge.
Jase: Yes.
Emily: Dedeker, I feel like this is something you've been a lot, I guess, all three of us have been a hinge.
Dedeker: Yes, we all have hinge experience in our non-monogamy CV.
Jase: Hinge experience, I think is what it's called.
Dedeker: Some hinge experience that we can discuss.
Emily: Also have been the other two parts of the V as well.
Dedeker: The legs.
Emily: The legs.
Dedeker: Apart from legs, what would you call it?
Jase: The lines?
Emily: Let me say the point but sure.
Jase: One person's the door jam and the other person's the door and then the hinge.
Dedeker: One person's the wall and one person's the door.
Jase: Yes, exactly.
Dedeker: I've been in some relationships like that.
Jase: Oh, boy. Oh boy.
Dedeker: Let's talk about Vs and hinges. This is a little bit of a one-o-one level discussion that we're going to have right out the gate just to lay out some vocabulary. Not everyone out there is really familiar with all this terminology. We'll just clarify it for everybody listening. One of the most common forms of non-monogamy and polyamory are what I like to call multiple linking dyads. Now, I love that phrase multiple linking dyads. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue and it doesn't exactly call to mind exactly in your mind's eye.
Emily: Would you say you coined that term? I almost feel like you did.
Dedeker: Me? No. I wouldn't say so.
Emily: You just say it a lot.
Dedeker: I do. It's hard to convey to people. I think that often, I'm having to use that phrase a lot and explain it in interviews, in particular, media interviews, because so many media outlets are just like, "Oh, are you all in a group relationship together?" Like, "Oh, you all live in a house together?" That's how most journalists sound these days. Then they're like, "Oh, yes. What if you all sleep together in the same bed?" I'm constantly having to explain like, "Oh, actually in non-monogamy like triads and quads and group relationships are not the main form of relationship. Actually, what's most common are these multiple linking dyads. Let me explain to you what that means."
Jase: Then you just watch the enthusiasm and the excitement drain out of their eyes as they realize--
Emily: They're like that sounds boring.
Dedeker: They've so many regrets.
Emily: Why don't I have this person on?
Jase: This scandalous, exciting thing I wanted it to be.
Dedeker: Let's break that down. A dyad is a two-person connection, a two-person relationship. A dyad is what we are used to seeing when we think of a romantic relationship. One or both of the points of that dyad may be connected to other people forming all kinds of these wild molecular structures, especially with a non-monogamy. Hence that's why there's this term polycule to describe this idea that we're connected together in these molecular ways or maybe like a constellation as well.
The funny thing about the term polycule. A couple of years ago when my partner Alex came over to California to visit, he and I were meeting up with a friend of his that he hadn't seen in a couple of years. He was texting with this friend leading up to the meeting. Alex is the opposite of me. He's much more willing to come out about non-monogamy first thing right out the gate with people. I tend to wait and do this little drip wait and see if this is going to be a conversation that's worth my time and effort.
He just right out the gate texts his friend just to clarify because I think he wanted to be honest about the fact that like, I was hanging out with Jace or we're going to go see-- stuff like that. He was like, Oh, just you know, we're in a polyamorous relationship, yadda, yadda, yadda. Just to clarify. His friend was like, "I live in the Bay Area, we're down with the 'cule."
Emily: That's great. We know--
Dedeker: I really like that.
Dedeker: In the 'cule, man.
Emily: I love that.
Jase: It's funny 'cause that reminds me of the second time when we went on tour. I think Dedeker and I walked into a Starbucks or something to get coffee-- it wasn't a Starbucks, we actually went to an independent coffee place, but whatever. Not important. They were like, "Oh, what are you in town for?" Because we mentioned something about being in town just for a little bit. They're like, "Oh, what are you in town for?" I saw Dedeker do the hesitation of like, "What kind of generic response do I give?" I was like, "Oh, we're here doing a live show about polyamory." Everyone behind there was like, "Oh, far out. That's awesome. Cool, man."
Dedeker: I'm inclined to be the one who's like, "I'm in town for business period."
Jase: Exactly. We're in Seattle at a coffee shop. They all know. They're like, "Yes, yes. Us too. Cool, see you there."
Dedeker: To rope it back to the 'cule. If we think about this molecular structure, these multiple linking dyads, that means that V-shaped structures are common. One point or one person who is in a relationship with at least two other people and those two other people may or may not also be seeing other people.
For the purposes of this episode, we're going to be mainly focusing on hinge partners. The person "in the middle" in this V-shaped dynamic, as opposed to we're not necessarily focusing on triads, open or closed triads or anything like that. That's the main dynamic that we're looking at today.
Emily: It's not a closed triangle, where the two other points are together, but rather, it's an open triangle, which makes a V. Cool.
Dedeker: Which makes every other journalist so sad and disappointed to be talking to me.
Emily: That's all right, they can get over it. All right, let's talk about the unique benefits that that hinge partner, the person in the middle receives when they are in a V relationship. They get things like double emotional support, they can receive that emotional support. If something challenging is going on, then they have two partners, or more potentially, that get to be there for them.
Multiple partners to turn to when things are tough, multiple partners for processing, multiple partners that may be able to take on things like physical or mental or emotional labor during big life transitions. That's great. Child-rearing, stuff like that.
Dedeker: I know, Jase, you have experience of multiple partners, for instance, escorting you to have a medical procedure done.
Jase: I've also been one of multiple partners escorting someone to that.
Dedeker: Exactly.
Emily: I've been there for that too. Yes. Also, a lot of the usual party line benefits of polyamory, like different needs met by different people, stuff like that, or a sense of chosen family or community, or the acceptance and validation that can come from multiple close partnerships, things like that. I know that in the past, when I had a lot of partners at a function or event together, it felt really cool, it felt really fun.
Jase: In a way, I think these benefits that we're coming up with for the hinge partner are just the benefits of being polyamorous at all, of just having multiple romantic relationships or multiple sexual relationships or whatever it is. While I think that that to people who are new to it are like, "Yes cool, you're dating more people." All the fun and stuff like that, but it also can be very profound and very serious.
We're talking about having people there to support you through some medical procedure or just when things are hard. I think that to take that even a step further, you have a larger safety net in a way. If something's not just tough emotionally but say you lose your job even or you get injured or something happens, that you do potentially have this wider safety net.
Then also, you have other people there. Where it's like that thing of maybe I locked my keys in my car, and want to ask my partner to come help unlock my car, but they're busy. Maybe I have another partner who also has a set of keys to my car or something like that. That it's just extending this safety net out there and having more people to spend romantic time with, to celebrate things together with. You got more anniversaries to celebrate, which is fun and, of course, you get extra birthday gifts.
Dedeker: Oh, it's fun. Again, there's this overlap with the benefits of just having a wider support network and more people in your life as well.
Jase: Right.
Dedeker: I wanted to talk about the unique benefits, partially because I do think that sometimes people don't focus on the particular struggles which we will get into because of the fact that on the surface level, people look at the hinge partner and perceive, "Oh, well they're the person was two partners and so it must be an easy ride for them." Clearly, they're the one who's getting the most benefits in this situation.
As we highlighted, there are a lot of particular benefits that you do get in that situation, but I have seen, particularly in my coaching practice, a lot of people who are the hinge partner really, really struggling, really having a hard time, really not sure what to do next and unable to get a lot of sympathy or empathy from their support network, I think, because of that perception of like, "Well, you're the one who has two partners, so clearly you've got the easiest job of anybody."
With that said, what are the unique struggles that hinge partners face in a V? In counterpoint to what we were saying about a hinge partner receiving double, potentially more emotional support, often hinge partners are also expected to give that emotional support back, ideally. That can mean a double duty of giving emotional support as well. It may mean having multiple people at once calling on you for physical labor, mental labor, emotional labor, sometimes at the same exact time. Sometimes both partners will be going through a tough time for different reasons and you're the one who has to extend yourself to be able to offer that support to both partners.
Jase: Yes, it does happen where one partner loses their job and another has a bad breakup with someone else at the same time. It's just, you want to be there for both of them. It's not like, "Oh, this sucks that this part of the contract, I didn't read." It's like, no, you want to be there for them. It is hard. It can take a lot out of you to do, give that support in general and then to be giving a double or more. It definitely can take a toll.
Emily: Yes, this idea that you have to keep everybody else happy and spread yourself thinner and thinner, especially if people are going through really challenging times at that moment. Many hinges report feeling stressed and anxious about attending to their partner's needs, especially when those needs might be competing with each other like you were just talking about.
Jase: Also those needs may be competing with each other where it's like both people have a need for a lot more of your time at that moment. It's like, "Well, If I'm giving more to one--"
Emily: I can't be in two places at once.
Jase: Yes, exactly. It can be really hard.
Emily: When you have more people in your life, there's that potential that you're sacrificing your own self-time and your own self-care, things like that. You might feel the need for all of your free time to just be scheduled with partners or you lose a sense of prioritizing your own needs and you think, "Hey, I need to just be attending to every single other person in my life."
Dedeker: Yes, I've definitely seen this and experienced this as a hinge where if both partners that the hinge is dating are in need in some way, often it's somehow this weird thing that happens where both partners can feel like, I'm not getting enough of your time or I'm not getting enough quality time. Then that can leave the hinge partner feeling like, Oh gosh, then I can't have any time to myself. If I have two partners who feel like they're not getting enough time, then I need to be offering up every single bit of free time that I have or free energy that I have so that I can help solve this problem of my partners needing more time.
On paper, that seems like it makes sense, but then in reality, often it backfires. It's the whole thing of if you're not caring for yourself, then you can't really care effectively for other people. It creates often a not-great cycle for hinges and their partners. The other hinge feels just stretched to capacity. Often that doesn't actually solve the issue, it just makes everybody a little bit more stressed and disappointed at the same time.
Jase: Yes, really. Then also, you get double birthday guests, but you also have to buy double birthday gifts.
Emily: Or more, yes.
Jase: Or more, yes.
Dedeker: The birthday gifts, that's just one example. It's the same thing, there could be extra costs. The cost of paying for date nights with multiple people, the cost of paying for multiple trips with multiple people or anniversary celebrations with multiple people that there can be. Of course, it depends on what level of financial entanglement or financial investment is appropriate for the different relationships, but it can mean that your just straight-up costs at the end of the day can escalate because of that. Another thing that I've noticed with hinges is there's a struggle with what I call managing the image.
Emily: Talk more about this.
Jase: Okay. Yes. What I mean by that is, I've seen a lot of hinge partners really struggle with the fact that often from the outside, they're perceived as like, okay, you're just with this partner. Okay. Oh, you're taking a trip with this partner, so that must mean that's the important relationship. Then a couple of months later, like, Oh wait, you're taking a trip with that partner too or you're celebrating an anniversary with that partner too? Wait. Did you break up with your other partner and now you're with this person? This falls under the jurisdiction of some general polyamory misconceptions and stigma and bias.
I've seen that often sometimes fall disproportionately on the hinge needing to essentially really be the one to make sure that the world knows like, "No, no, no, I'm holding both these relationships at the same time. It's not just like a one or the other." Of course, the way that this can trickle down is with stuff like social media and trying to manage like, Oh god, if I post a picture with one partner, do I need to make sure it's super equal? When I posted with another partner, when is it appropriate to start doing that? How do I manage two different partners' level of outness? That's another unique challenge that I've seen fall on a hinge? Does that make sense?
Emily: That's a really good point. Yes.
Jase: Yes, definitely. I think that can happen for the people who are on the ends of that, as well like the people in the V arms. Yes, especially for the hinge, there is that burden of making it clear that just because I brought this one person to this event doesn't mean that the other person's not important or whatever. Managing levels of outness with multiple partners can also be challenging too.
Emily: Especially if not everybody is on the same page in that way, that can definitely be challenging. Let's talk about some common pitfalls that occur for hinges. One of them absolutely that I'm very familiar with is defaulting to people-pleasing behavior. Doing things like saying yes or agreeing in the moment to avoid a negative reaction for one or both of your partners, even things like avoiding difficult conversations.
You may also just not have the emotional bandwidth to deal with difficult conversations from multiple people. You might not be standing up for your own needs, again, because you have a limited amount of time and a limited emotional capacity. You feel like, "Well, crap, I'm going to cut myself out before I cut out the needs of these other people that I care so much about."
Dedeker: This is another cycle that I see play out pretty frequently that the more the two V partners maybe are getting disappointed or let down or feel like their needs are not getting met or they're getting frustrated, the more pressure that a hinge feels to people please, to really try to make up for lost time or make up for the mistakes that they're making.
Then there can be this tendency to just agree to everything, whatever their partners ask without maybe considering if I say yes, to this, does that mean I'm actually saying no to something with another partner? If I say yes to this, does this actually influence my other partner and they should be part of this conversation? If I say yes to this and yes to that, is that creating a time paradox where I'm actually committing to more time than is available in a day or in a week? Then, of course, that often feeds back into the cycle of someone being disappointed or hurt or let down in some way and it all just feeds into itself.
Jase: Yes, boy. Boy, oh boy.
Emily: Another really tricky thing to maneuver is oversharing or under sharing information with each of the people that are in the V, so things like not protecting a partner's privacy, that sometimes can be really challenging. You have those questions of how much should I expose or not about this other partner's situation? What's allowed, what's not allowed? Things also like processing fights or arguments that happen in one relationship with another partner. I think this is another reason to hold your friends and those relationships closely as well because having a party, that's not involved with you in a romantic way, I think, can be a more objective person to share your grievances with.
Also, withholding information that's relevant to a particular partner or compartmentalizing information, things like that. It's a very tricky maneuver, tightrope to walk, figuring out how much you should be disclosing or not disclosing, and trying to be communicative with both partners as much as is needed, but not necessarily oversharing that information.
Dedeker: Unfortunately, because just straight up, a lot of people who are newbies, newly opening up their relationship or newly trying out dating multiple people at once in a consensual and ethical way, there's no scripts for this, unfortunately. We don't have a lot of social scripts about what is appropriate to share, how much should I tell one partner about the other partner? How appropriate is it to talk about what's going on in one relationship with a different relationship?
People just get thrown into this. To be fair, some of it is unintentional, of just like I said, we don't get education about this and so we just take a stab in the dark. Often, people will sometimes go to these unhelpful extremes of either like, Okay, well, I guess-- I don't know, I'm just going to divulge absolutely everything to let's say, my nesting partner about what's going on in my new dating relationship. I'm just going to be full free flow of information, not worrying about what privacy boundaries my new partner may have or not.
They can default to the like, Oh, this is weird to talk about. I don't know if it's okay. Maybe it's going to upset one partner or the other and so I'm just going to not talk about anything that's going on, and sometimes can fall into a weird semi unintentional, don't ask, don't tell arrangement. Neither of those extremes tend to work out very well for people.
Jase: It's finding that balance because sometimes people can take that privacy concern too far to the point where then it starts to feel like keeping secrets or withholding things.
Emily: That's a good point.
Jase: It is a tricky balance to find that gets easier with practice. In the second half of this episode, we're going to get into some techniques and things that could maybe help help you get a handle on that. Another one that we have here is, Dedeker, you wrote this down as bad PR which I really like.
Dedeker: That's what I call it.
Jase: Essentially, it's that same thing of, if you're sharing stuff about one partner with another one, that you may be either intentionally or unintentionally only sharing information that casts that person in a negative light. A lot of times, this comes from a place of, I have a partner who's feeling insecure. I want to reassure them, so I'm going to tell them how they're better than the other person that I'm dating or maybe tell them about some negative trait of that person. Just don't do it, don't do that. It's a real problem that happens and it comes not from a intentionally mean place. It's just like, I'm going to reassure you, but it can actually lead to a lot more negative consequences down the road.
Dedeker: This can also happen if you are oversharing. For instance, if you talk about a fight or an argument or some fallout that happened in another relationship and you're using a different relationship as a space to process for that, often, that sets up your partner to not necessarily feel very supportive of your relationship. All you're really bringing to them is all the relationship drama that is happening, big or small.
Emily: I got to say that also is the case for friends, for family members, for stuff like that. Just something to keep in mind in general. Don't shit all over your party to another person because it's probably not going to make your friends or your family or whomever see that person in a good light.
Dedeker: Unless you are very clear that you are looking for someone to support you in let's say, leaving that person, a little bit different.
Emily: Sure, of course.
Jase: I think that's it's fine to get that support but it's often we only ever come during the problems and not also sharing the positive things and the good things so finding that balance could also be a way to look at that.
Another challenge that hinges can run into is trying to force the metamour relationships. The two people that they're in relationship with trying to force their relationship with each other to look a certain way. This could be anything from putting pressure on them or even coercing them to be closer friends or even to be sexual partners with each other that they may not be that interested in or at all interested in or the opposite extreme of really trying to keep them separated and not let them communicate with each other. Both of those things are not great.
Dedeker: That's a little bit related to another pitfall that I see all the time, which I call the double-dip, or I also call it the double-dip for maximum efficiency where basically a hinge can fall into this habit of trying to prioritize group hangouts as in all three of us will spend time together at the expense of solo quality time for one of the partners or both of the partners. Again, this is the thing that on paper makes total sense. If I have two partners, both of them feel like they're not getting enough time with me, if I just double up and we have more group hangouts, like that counts, right?
Jase: Problem solved.
Dedeker: Then everyone's happy. Problem solved maximum efficiency.
Emily: Not necessary.
Dedeker: That's not to say that group hangouts can't be great, and really fun but I've worked with a lot of people where, I don't know-- Basically, partners can sniff that out very quickly that this is what's happening is just what my experience has been. People can tell really quickly, like, "Hey, instead of the quality time that I'm asking for, I'm getting this as a substitute," and it doesn't quite fly.
Then, the last pitfall that we're going to talk about, and this is a doozy, we're going to give it its own entire section just to talk about this, because I think this is an aspect that can underlie all of these previous pitfalls that we talked about, and that is triangulation. We're going to talk about that more in depth after our ad break. First, we're going to spend a couple minutes talking about the ways that you can support this show so that we can keep this information coming to you for free.
Jase: We're back and we're going to talk about triangles because we love them.
Dedeker: Everything is a triangle, y'all.
Emily: Always.
Dedeker: I'll end up doing all the episodes about triangles.
Emily: It's because there's three of us, you love triangles.
Dedeker: Oh, that's true. We can't escape the triangle.
Jase: The triforces with communication. We got triangle all around us.
Dedeker: Everything. Maybe we should change our logo to be only triangles.
Jase: That's good. I like that.
Emily: I don't hate that.
Dedeker: We'll definitely look like a cult at that point.
Jase: It does. You're right.
Emily: Do triangles equal cult?
Dedeker: In my mind, triangles equals cults or because Christian churches are also very much into the whole Trinity thing.
Emily: Father, Son, Holy Ghost business, which I still don't know what that meant, but maybe I'll find out
Dedeker: In this episode of multi-trianglary, we're talking about triangulation. Have y'all heard of triangulation before?
Jase: Yes.
Emily: Not in this sense.
Jase: You've talked about it.
Dedeker: You think of it as what? The trigonometry sense?
Emily: Sure, yes or like, triangulating something, so that it like comes together with something else or like it word. Like you're stranded on a--
Dedeker: Triangulating your opposition.
Emily: Yes, exactly.
Jase: It's funny, because I fell like they're very different meanings for the same thing. Triangulation is using key points to determine the location of a third point like the distance from two other points to determine the location of a third point. Then triangulation here is more about the telephone game and the ganging up on people that can happen.
Dedeker: There's a couple of different flavors of what I'm going to call psychological triangulation. As a term, it first came to be associated with the work of psychiatrist, Murray Bowen. Bowen developed in the '60s, basically, family systems theory, which was a theory about behavior that looks at families as an emotional unit, uses systems thinking to describe the unit's interactions.
Bowen theorized that if you have a two-person emotional system that becomes unstable or comes under stress in some way, it will naturally form itself into a three-person system or a triangle. As in like it will draw in a third point, a third person. The way that this plays out in real life is that the third person is sometimes used as a substitute for direct communication so as in they have to communicate through this third person.
Emily: The mediator?
Dedeker: Maybe like a mediator, but I'm thinking in this context in a bad way like not good--
Emily: Go between?
Dedeker: The go between, yes, a third party or the middleman, something like that. Usually, this communication is negative or critical, expresses some dissatisfaction. Of course, I think that really common examples we can think of is, the really toxic situation of two parents who are using a child to communicate between each other.
Emily: Tell your mom that she's a stuck up lady.
Dedeker: Yes, or just tell your mom she's a stuck up lady.
Emily: I was going to say something meaner, but that would be sad to tell a little kid.
Dedeker: I have baggage around being the communicator between my mom and my sister sometimes growing up, not even necessarily bad stuff, but just being the communicator, it's got me very, very, very stressed out and to this day still stresses me out.
Emily: Your sister is quite a bit older than you are?
Dedeker: Yes, she's eight years older.
Emily: Okay. Yes, that makes sense.
Dedeker: I think we can see this in friend groups playing out as well. Sometimes this is called being the broker or playing telephone and can definitely see this play out, I think, in V relationships sometimes. The most common trope is the hinge having to triangulate between the two partners. As in my partner over here said this about my partner over there, and I'm going to try to communicate these things to them. I'm going to try to say like, Oh, yes, my other partner, she was really upset that you didn't talk to her at the party, and then I have to go back to my other partner like, Oh, well, my other partner says that she didn't mean to not talk to you at the party it was just this. This stuff happens all the time.
It is interesting that I've rarely witnessed hinge partners feeling stressed out by carrying positive messages between two partners. It's usually the negative stuff that ends up being triangulated through the hinge partner. I have also seen this play out in other ways as well. I have seen this play out where two metamours get together and then are conveying weird messages through each other to the hinge partner. That also happens.
Emily: For sure, yes. Less often, though, definitely tends to go through the hinge.
Jase: When triangular relationships like this occur, there is this risk of having the two people who are in this alignment, forming something called an enmeshed relationship enmeshed. Enmeshed relationships, they're relationships in which personal boundaries are diffused and an over-concern for others leads to a loss of autonomous development. It's similar to the concept of low self-differentiation. Can you explain that a little bit?
Dedeker: I think a good way to think about this is thinking about something like our typical example of a couple who start dating a third, for instance. We can look at that couple as most likely having what we would define as an enmeshed relationship here where maybe they very much identify as a couple, maybe there's not a lot of good personal boundaries between them, and there's not a lot of autonomy between them, and there's not a lot of self-differentiation between them. That can lead to these weird triangular relationships in this particular way, and also can lead to the slightly different aspect of triangulation as well.
Emily: Yes. That factor of triangulation is explored by Josephine Ferraro. Based on her description, it seems that triangulation occurs when unhealthy alliances form between two people against a third. For example, that could be a son and a father against a mother or a mother and her daughter against another daughter or something like that. I have definitely seen that in my own life with my mother's siblings, and my grandmother.
Dedeker: Yes. My mother's siblings also, just triangulation is the name of the game, my goodness.
Jase: All over the place when I was young and just like, I don't know what's happening, but this sounds exactly like that, absolutely. For hinges, it could look or feel like me and one partner against the other partner or both partners against me if I'm the hinge, which is dicey. Bboth are dicey.
Jase Right. Not ideal.
Dedeker: Again, the way that this often plays out is, the hinge with one of their partners, who is maybe "the good partner" that they feel close to, the relationship's going well, and then the other partner who maybe is more needy or going through a rough time or there's more conflict on that side becoming "the bad partner" and it can be very easy to feel like the hinge is essentially forming this alliance with the "good partner" and ganging up on the bad partner.
Sometimes that can swap and go back and forth. I have also talked to hinges where sometimes they felt like their partners were ganging up on them to a certain extent. That their two hinge partners have gotten enmeshed in a certain way to essentially gang up because they have a lot of criticisms or negative feelings towards the hinge partner that they share.
Jase: I think it's worth clarifying here too, that this very rarely is intentional or something that any of these people are thinking of explicitly. Sometimes the way it shows up is that say one of those partners might feel like the hinge on the other partner are ganged up against them. That can be surprising news or feel like this completely incorrect accusation to the other two because there's this-- One thing is I think as humans, this triangulation happens a lot and so we can be extra sensitive to it.
I think also, it's very easy to start doing that without ever being intentional about it because it's just this natural human behavior. It's not like, "Hey, we're going to ally against this person like we're on Big Brother or something" It's just-
Emily: Survivor.
Jase: -we just do it. We become a little more enmeshed and aligned over here, and that by the nature of working together towards this other person, makes them feel more alienated or attacked. It's a very subtle and very ingrained part of our human behavior that we really have to be conscious of in this kind of situation.
Dedeker: Definitely. I will say, just as a little bit of a side bonus, is that this concept of triangulation, it can also be stabilizing in some instances, at least according to the theories that are out there. A common example is a couple who's in conflict who go to a marriage therapist. They're bringing in this third point, but in that case, having the third point actually help to stabilize the dyad. Of course, that requires the marriage therapist to also not get enmeshed. A good marriage therapist is not there forming an alliance with one partner or the other--
Emily: This person is the right one.
Dedeker: Right. They're not playing telephone game through the partners necessarily. That's an instance where having the third party there can be very stabilizing. Marie Bowen had some other interesting theories attached to this where he would say things like, "A dyad could be stabilized by a third party leaving or it could be stabilized by third-party joining." The unfortunate example that he gave was, for instance, a couple that are in conflict, and then they have a child, and that stabilizes them. I was like,
Jase: Yikes! Not a great solution to that problem.
Dedeker: Not great.
Emily: I think that's why a lot of people have good-
Dedeker: Not impossible, for sure.
Emily: Got it.
Dedeker: Not impossible. I'm not saying that never happens, but I'm just saying maybe people rely on that a little bit too much. The same way people rely on, we add a girlfriend to the mix or we add a third partner to the mix and that's going to help stabilize us. We've definitely seen that that isn't always the case I would argue.
Jase: Right. Very rarely is that stabilizing. I think this example of a couple going to a marriage therapist is good because this is a person who's trained very specifically to be this triangulating force without competing for the affections or time of the two people because it is this professional setting. I think that's an important distinction to make, an important thing to realize there. Because even if you did have a third person, you add a third to your relationship and that is stabilizing to your relationship, at least for a little while, at what potential cost to that other person from an emotional energy and labor point of view?
Emily: Totally.
Jase: That often gets forgotten. I would bet that Murray Bowen was not so much focusing on that if he was so focused on the Dallas influence on them.
Dedeker: Yes. That's true. There's also a lot of overlap here with the Kaufman drama triangle, which we did cover just a super brief overview that basically that's the theory that posits thought in a triangular system, people will fall into these roles of victim, persecutor and rescuer, and will often perceive the other two in different roles and will fall into playing out that role in a particular way that's not very helpful. We cover that more in-depth in Episode 187. We highly recommend you to go check that out as well.
Emily: 187?
Dedeker: Yes, 187, that's how long ago it was.
Emily: Are you kidding? Really? I felt like we just did that one, 187 and we're on 300 and whatever.
Dedeker: No, Emily, we did it in September of 2018.
Jase: Jesus, that's a good one though.
Dedeker: Time flies when you're having fun on a podcast.
Emily: Yes, I know. I remember it. That's one of the ones that I do remember.
That's why I'm like, "We must have done it like yesterday." All right. Cool.
Dedeker: Briefly to review, I just really want to make sure that people hold in their minds awareness of this triangulation dynamic that basically triangulation means that you get tangled up with both the telephone game of brokering, a relationship of brokering communication between two people and also can get tangled up with this two against one dynamic that's very easy for us human beings to fall into. Maybe we should call it tangulation.
Emily: Tangulation?
Dedeker: Yes.
Emily: Tangled triangulation.
Jase: Yes, I like tangulation, that's fun.
Dedeker: Let's talk about what does it take to be a good hinge partner? Sadly--
Emily: What indeed?
Dedeker: Yes. There's not a lot of hard research out there on what makes for a good hinge partner, at least not yet. I hope that that day will come where we can start to see that. What we've done is we've taken a look at what the community is saying about hinge partners, people who actually have the lived experience. We looked at threads in our own private Patreon-only Facebook group. We looked at threads in the Black & Poly Facebook group, looked at Reddit threads, looked at various blog posts and articles, just to get a sense of what are the recurring themes that are showing up again and again and again, based on people's lived experiences.
Jase: The first of these, and Emily talked about this a little bit earlier on in the episode, but it's having external sources of support that are not just the romantic partners involved in this V. This could be trusted friends, could be a mentor, could be a professional, like a coach or a therapist or a counselor or this could be a really supportive family member. Someone outside of these romantic or sexual relationships to be able to get some of that support and to, I guess also maybe to have someone to go to, who's outside of any potential triangulation within that relationship or tangulation.
This is also really important because it provides a way to be able to process or vent without that having to be to one partner about the other, which as we discussed, generally, is always going to go badly and also keeps you from only ever being able to go to one partner to get advice about the other partner.
That can work out sometimes, especially if all the people involved are much more experienced with non-monogamy, have been doing it a long time, there's a large degree of mutual respect and trust of everyone around, you can then support your partners in what they're going through with other partners. Generally speaking, it's harder. If you have other sources of support, those are going to be better places to go for that.
Dedeker: I have seen hinges who will figure out half of this let's say. For instance, often people who are new who have just gotten thrown into this dynamic, they're figuring it out, they don't have any scripts, they're trying to find the best ways of doing this, they do learn very quickly, "Ooh, not great for me to vent to one partner about another or to go to one partner for advice about the other to process or to only tell negative stuff." They do figure out pretty early on, "Okay, this is not good."
Unfortunately, I see a lot of very sad and lonely hinges who then end up in a place of, I have no one. I can't talk to my partners. I don't have anyone in my life who understands or when I do open up to people, they criticize me or they think that I am super lucky because I have two partners. I have seen this happen with hinge partners. It's just like, I have nobody, after they have realized the halfway mark of not taking everything just to their partners. This is so, so, so important to avoid this, just becoming this little vacuum where you're carrying all this by yourself because that's also not going to go great.
Hinge partners also have a good sense of time management and scheduling. I know it's a trope in a meme at this point about polyamory, but it's true. That can be things like having good organizational tools like Google calendar, whether that's a big shared calendar that everyone is okay sharing together or having separate calendars for both of your partners that you share together. It involves things like having good time awareness. What I mean by that is the ability to think ahead, anticipate potential scheduling conflicts that may be coming down the pipe, remember important dates for multiple people such as birthdays, anniversaries, et cetera.
It also means having good time communication, as in being proactive in communicating with partners about the schedule, bringing up scheduling conflicts or scheduling puzzles early on. I think it was Kathy Labriola who said specifically, "If you're anticipating that you're going to have to negotiate holiday time with multiple partners, bring it up in July." That's when you start talking about it. Give a lot of time to figure these things out and let emotions work their way through. Good hinge partners are able to do that, whether it's about the holidays or even if they see that two weeks from now, there's going to be some scheduling conflict.
Jase: I've definitely found that skill of just planning ahead, just a little bit more than you normally would making plans is really one of those things that comes up as you're learning to be a better hinge partner. It's just maybe if you normally plan things one day ahead, you start planning them maybe two or three days ahead. Even if it's just that little bit, it does make a difference because there's more schedules involved.
Dedeker: Another common thread that showed up a lot connected to the time management and scheduling is a good hinge partner is someone who can follow through on plans and not cancel all the time for non-emergencies. Especially if it's non-emergencies involving one particular partner more often than the others.
Emily: Also, something that good hinge partners do is that they have boundaries that they can express and uphold consistently. We talk about boundaries a lot on the show, but if you want specific episodes where we do that, you can look to Multiamory episode 179 or 227. This means things like reserving time for oneself. We've talked about that a little bit before, but that's something that can go awry if you have a lot of partners that you spread yourself a bit too thin, so having good boundaries and being sure that you prioritize self-care time. That's very, very important.
Also things like expressing honestly and advocating for what you personally want, so anything. That can be like what you want out of a relationship, how much time you want to spend with your other partners, how much time you want to prioritize for things like friends, stuff like that. What matters to you, make it heard, make it known. Also, only agreeing to things that you can actually willingly agree to and say no or renegotiate things that you can't agree to. You're not going to be able to say yes to absolutely everything. That's really important. Make sure that you are being honest with yourself and honest with your partners about what you can and cannot agree to.
Also, on the flip side, you can avoid being hyper boundaried or over-encumbered with your boundaries. Don't be super inflexible or don't sit there and say, "I'm not going to negotiate with you. I'm not going to compromise with you." Things like that. "It's my way or the highway." It's important to not do that. Just have a sense of flow, but also allow for yourself to get prioritized, not just the relationships that you're in. Another thing that people who are good hinges do is that they don't compare their partners to each other in negative ways. Yikes. This is a big one. That includes externally and internally. Externally, don't highlight your partner's shortcomings in comparison to your other partner's strengths.
Jase: Even if you're trying to reassure, it's just not helpful.
Emily: No, it's not helpful. It's not nice. It also is like, wait a minute, you're thinking that about the person that you're with? Also, internally, it can be very easy to fall into a mental habit of only seeing a partner's failures and internally comparing them to a real or imaginary better partner. I've had partners be like, well, I want a relationship that looks like X. It really sucks to hear that because I'm like, "Well, fuck, I guess I'm not that." Don't be doing that internally or externally.
Dedeker: There's some research behind this. I think it's the research from the Gottman Institute basically saying that that a big predictor of people leaving relationships is basically in our minds, we compare our current partner to our perceived options. Once we perceive that like, "I have a better option or I could have a better option out there", we're much more likely to want to leave. Yes, sometimes that can be a good thing.
I think that if you're finding yourself in a constant pattern of comparison, whether you're comparing one partner to another in your head or even just one partner to an imaginary other, that may be trying to tell you something. It may be trying to tell you, Hey, there's something that you're longing for. There's something that needs to be resolved. You need to leave this relationship. It's not the right partner for you. That could be true.
However, it could also just be a mental habit based on there being unresolved things in the relationship that could be resolved. I found that this is especially dangerous if you're in an established relationship that you haven't really been caring for or the two of you haven't really been tending for each other. Then if you fall into NRE with another partner, there's basically going to be no winning there with your established partner. If you're not tending to that relationship, if you're not resolving things, then whoever you're in NRE with is always going to come out looking better.
It's wild to me just how many clients I hear go through this process. It reminds me of almost this constant cycle of upgrading your phone. To be fair, I do think we're in a culture that encourages a little bit of that sort of thinking, especially with serial monogamy--
Emily: No, no, no
Dedeker: Yes. Exactly. Upgrading to the next better, next better, next better, next better. Yes, I hear that all the time. That we'll get into NRE with someone and then they're just like, Oh my god, compared to my current partner, it's like they're just so understanding and so mature and so honest. They really give me what I need, even though I've only known them for two weeks, but I just I really think they're the partner for me, and then I've seen clients go through the cycle where then they leave the old relationship, get into the new one, and then it's only a matter of time before the next dose of NRE comes along as the same thing you’re like, "Oh my god, I think this person actually really gets me, so much more understanding, so much more mature." That can be a thing. Just be aware of it.
I'm not saying if you're feeling this need to compare that means it's total bullshit and you shouldn't listen to it, but just you should be careful about if you're falling into a mental habit of constantly comparing your partner and they're coming up short al the time.
Jase: Yes. Another trait of good skillful hinges is having a sensitivity to and an understanding about structural imbalances across relationships. What we mean by structural imbalances here is something like if you lived with one partner and not with another, or say you have kids or a business with one and not with another, that that's a structural imbalance. They're in the structure of it. You can't change that part of it necessarily or at least not right away.
Being aware of that and having an understanding that that does have an effect and you can't just say, "Oh, that doesn't affect anything, I'm going to ignore it," but being aware of it, having a sensitivity to it. That's things like a willingness to try to provide a little bit extra to counterbalance that for the partners who don't get to benefit from living with you or maybe being seen with you in public, being a couple on social media or being the plus one to be a wedding of your cousin or something like that.
All these little pieces of couples privilege that oftentimes still only extend to that one partner who structurally is more entwined with you so just really being aware and conscious of trying to counterbalance that as much as possible. Now, this is extra important if you are consciously choosing or practicing hierarchical polyamory, where you do have a clear primary, whether you've used the words primary-secondary or you just refer to it as like a nesting partner and other partners.
Whatever it is, you are consciously aware that there is a difference in the entanglement and the connection, and potentially the privilege with this one person that other partners are not going to have. Being aware of it, but this is also important even if you practice some sort of non-hierarchical polyamory. Maybe you don't live with any of your partners but it's still good to be aware of because as human beings, all our relationships with everyone else is not equal.
They're never equal. They're never the same so just having an awareness and a consciousness of the fact that there can be these imbalances and that that's something that you need to address and try to counterbalances when possible.
Emily: Another thing that good hinges do is that they share information across relationships appropriately and ethically. That means things like protecting their own privacy and the privacy of others, of the people that they're in relationships with. It's also important to think about when there's an imbalance between how old or new a relationship is. Often it's really easy for people to overshare about a new relationship to their partner that's in the older relationship so definitely being cognizant and wary of that.
It's important to get clear with each partner about what information they're comfortable being shared. That can include a whole host of things from how out you are or STI status, things like that. It's important to see how comfortable are you with me sharing this information to my other partner.
Dedeker: Lastly, the last thing we're going to talk about is a good skill to have is awareness of what belongs to you. What I mean by that is being able to tell and take ownership of your own decisions and actions and take responsibility for those things. Also being aware of, okay, if an issue arises, is this an issue between me and one of my partners? Is it an issue between me and a different partner? Is it actually an issue between them as metamours, or is it an issue that actually is relevant to all three of us that we need to be able to sit down all three of us and talk about and resolve?
The way that I see this fall apart is often-- quick sidebar. It's difficult to talk about this because I want a default to like, okay, yes, you agree something with partner A, and then you tell partner B and then partner B doesn't like it so you go back to partner A. To be totally honest, I realize that sometimes that makes it easier to say, but it's not easier to parse or understand.
Emily: Can you say us, like just use me and Jase?
Dedeker: Yes. I could do that. Well, I actually want to make this into a PSA for the entire non-monogamous community that when you make posts about your relationship drama or what's going on in your life and you just use letters where you're like, "Oh, my partner T said this but then that really upset my partner C, but then C’s other partner B came and then told me this that T was going to say--" Using the letters.
Jase: It’s so hard to follow.
Dedeker: It’s awful. No one likes to follow it, you get frustrated-
Emily: No one can follow that.
Dedeker: -fall asleep halfway through so just use fake names. Come up with fake names. If your partners are not comfortable having their names shared in a particular space, use fake names. That’s great. It’s a tiny amount of effort that makes it so much more easy to understand. I'm talking to all of you out there listening right now. There. I said it.
Jase: Pum, pum, pum, pum.
Dedeker: For this example, the more you know.
Emily: Beautiful.
Dedeker: Back to what I was saying. The way that this falls apart is, let's say if my partners are both Jase and Emily and I agree to something with Jase and maybe that disadvantages or it negatively influenced Em in some way. Let’s say me and Jase have agreed, okay, I will only spend one night of the week out of the house for the next six months.
Jase: Okay.
Dedeker: Okay, great. Yes, agreement, yes, Jase. Then I go to tell Em that, and instead of saying, "Hey, I had a conversation with Jase, this is what Jace wanted, I agreed to it. I decided this is what I'm going to do and I realized that that has an impact on you." Instead of saying that I come to Em and I say, so, let’s--
Emily: Jase made me.
Dedeker: "Jase made me do this. Jase really wants me to do this, and I don't have a choice and so Jase is imposing this, and that sucks, and Jase sucks."
Emily: What a
Dedeker: That’s really muddling what actually belongs to you. It’s really muddling.
Jase: Right. Not taking ownership of the role that you had in agreement to that and that that was your decision ultimately your partner isn't truly forcing you into things in that way and if they are, then we've got much bigger problems to deal with.
Dedeker: Yes. I've started recently working action with a lot of triads, and Vs a lot more than I used to just helping to mediate these things. This is one of the things that I find the most important when I work with people is taking an inventory of these things, what belongs to this person, what belongs to that person, what belongs to the other person, what's an issue between these two points, what's an issue between those two points? Then figuring out what's actually relevant for everybody to talk about and--
Emily: Ownership?
Dedeker: Yes. It's sticky work, and it's confusing to work, and it's hard, but it's so, so, so, so worth it.
Jase: When work with a triad, does that then become quadrangulation?
Dedeker: I wonder what Bowen would say about that.
Emily: This would blow his mind. Just completely blow it.
Dedeker: Oh, boy. We're going to go on and do a bonus episode. Now, this is super fascinating. In our bonus episode, we're going to be talking about what can studies that have been done on communication in step-families, what can that teach us about being better hinge partners? I hope that that's intriguing and tantalizing to always tell your brain and heart. On our Instagram, we're going to be putting up a poll. We want to know, do you think that it is easy or is it difficult to be a hinge partner?