396 - The Most Successful Online Dating Practices (with OkCupid's Michael Kaye)

Full transcript available

The dating game

Michael Kaye, head of communications at the popular dating app OkCupid, has graciously joined us for this episode to give his insight on some of our questions regarding online dating in general as well as online dating for non-monogamous folks. Some of the topics and questions he tackles during this episode include:

• Advice from him for those getting into online dating for the first time in a while (or ever).

• Changes in dating trends during the pandemic and what makes an “excellent dater.”

• Advice for those who feel discouraged with online dating.

• “Cuffing season” and the data that backs it up, as well as breakup season.

• LGBTQ dating trends.

• Surveying OkCupid’s data from non-monogamous users.

• Some specific questions from our patrons about OkCupid having more expressive relationship categories and only being able to select other queer people to view.

For those of us who feel as though we see the same people on the dating apps again and again with no one new, Michael suggests updating your profile just with a few different sentences to “trick” the app into thinking you’re a newer user—this will allow you to view a wider selection of potential matches!

OkCupid publishes all of the data they glean from the questions users answer on their app. They use this data to predict dating trends and to figure out what their users want, but for anyone who wants to look at the data they collect, visit their Dating Data Center!

Find more of Michael on Instagram at @MichaelKayePR or on Twitter at @OkCupid, and be sure to listen to the full episode to learn how to take advantage of a free premium OkCupid membership as a Multiamory listener!

Transcript

This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.

Jase: On this episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we are talking about online dating and OKCupid, with their Head of Communications, Michael Kaye. Today we're going to be discussing how online dating has changed over the course of the pandemic. Give some general advice on how to navigate the online dating scene and answer some questions that you our listeners specifically gave to ask someone from OKCupid about non-monogamous dating. We're really excited to have you here on this episode. Michael, thank you for joining us.

Michael: Thank you much for having me. I'm pumped for this conversation today.

Dedeker: I'm glad to hear that. I imagine that the past three years have been a wild ride.

Michael: To say the least. I joined the team right before the pandemic, so seeing how dating and relationships have ebbed and flowed over the past couple of years has been fascinating.

Dedeker: Yes, I mean, I'm really curious about like, what that was like when the pandemic really hits and no one can go on a date really. Was it like sheer panic and like fires burning everywhere behind the scenes at OkCupid? Was there some really intense strategizing? Like, what was the feeling around that at that time?

Michael: Yes, I think we experienced the pandemic very similarly to everyone else. We were a little bit nervous, but I think it was more as nerves from us as people versus employees. We were navigating this as people too, we had no idea what was happening and everyone actually stayed really calm. I obviously went through my hair dyeing phase, shaving my head phase, all very early on but when it came to dating, we didn't see a huge impact.

I would say the first couple of weeks, even months of the pandemic, yes, activity on the app slowed but as we went further on, activity engagement actually skyrocketed, because we couldn't go anywhere. People had nothing else to do besides be on their phone so they were matching with people more than ever before. They were talking to people more than ever before. One trend that I think was really interesting is that we saw women specifically take control of their dating lives and they were sending more first messages than they ever had in our history.

Emily: Wow, that is interesting.

Dedeker: Yes, because I feel like that's something again, I haven't been on the dating apps in like a little while now but I'm always caught off guard by how still even today there is this convention of like women are kind of, I don't know, maybe discouraged from sending a first message and men are often hyper encouraged to be aggressive and assertive in that way. That's really fascinating. Why do you think that is?

Michael: I think they and this is just speaking from my personal opinion. I think they were just tired of waiting for a message from who they consider to be a quality match, whether that's a guy or a woman, non-binary person, whoever it is, and they stopped waiting for that courtship and said, "Why the hell can I just send a first message and take control of my own dating life?'

What's actually fascinating, and this should hopefully encourage all women out there to send a first message is that conversations that are initiated by women on OkCupid lasts longer than conversations that are started by men. It's just to build on to what you said, men, you don't have to be aggressive. Don't be like that on a dating app. It's just not going to land.

Jase: Well, yes, I think more often, what men get is the like, you have to just send out as many messages and just like everybody, because you're desperate for choice, you just got to maximize the chance that anyone's going to like you, which, I mean, there's a whole lot of societal stuff that we could try to unpack with that but, I do feel like that's kind of the messaging and I'm curious, I mean, because you have access to all the data, right?

OKCupid has for years now been an awesome source of data because you actually published quite a lot of it and it's been a resource that we've talked about on many episodes on this show as well. I'm curious if you have anything to kind of add to that from just like being able to look big picture wise at all these users about that kind of spamming that I'm going to like everybody to try to get a match, and I'm just going to send out kind of template messages or whatever to everyone. What have you seen about that?

Michael: Yes, we can see more data on how people are responding to our questions. That's really where the bulk of our data comes from. For anyone who's unfamiliar, OKCupid has thousands of matching questions. They cover everything related to dating, relationships, and sex, but also pretty much every issue that's top of mind for Gen Z and Millennial, Gen X daters. We have questions about climate change, gun control, marriage equality, the list goes on.

These questions have actually been answered more than 410 million times in 2022 alone, and well nearly 10 billion times since we launched our app. When it comes to first messages, we actually have a question about what someone's looking for in a first message and the top two responses that we're hearing from our daters is just ask them a question or reference something that you see on their profile, which was why we talk about profiles all the time. You have to give people content to respond to whether it's in your prompts or your photos but that's what lands really well. A hey, a hi, that actually has the highest rate of being ignored by someone.

Emily: That makes sense. How are you supposed to respond to that, like hi back? I mean, you know nothing about this person, and they clearly aren't really looking or engaging with anything that you say on your profile that makes a lot of sense. I will just say I've heard this sentiment out there, that it's rough in the dating scene from some of my friends who are really active in the dating scene, they'll go out on maybe two, three, four dates with someone and then all of a sudden, the plug is pulled and it's like, "Ah, I'm not that interested," or something along those lines.

I think it's overwhelming because there are many apps out there and there are many different options, the swiping or the looking or whatever. There's many options out there for people. Do you have any blanket advice for someone who's getting into the dating scene maybe after a long-term relationship is broken up, or somebody who's young and just starting to move into dating online?

Michael: Yes, first, because people know I work on a dating app, they think that I want people dating 24/7. That actually couldn't be farther from the truth. First of all, dating is tough, it's really hard. It's a part-time job. Some people consider it a full-time job and you have to go into it with the mindset that, this is going to take some work on your end, and it's going to take some time. I talk to people, I talk to daters all the time, and I ask them-- I really tell them, "If you're not in the mindset to date, take a break.

You don't have to be on the apps all the time but if you are in the mindset, and you're looking for someone, one or more, whatever it is you're looking for, you have to be willing to put in the work. You have to spend a few minutes at least every day on your dating app and, you're going to get out of these dating apps, no matter which one it is what you put into it. If you're going to put minimal effort, you're going to get candidates who are also putting in minimal effort to dating and you're both just not going to vibe."

Dedeker: Yes, I want to jump on I do think that and we've touched on this a little bit already, that often there are these weird gender dynamics at play with the online dating scene, and of course, if we're just looking at like, let's say heterosexual people the stereotype is that a lot of women get just like, overwhelmed with matches or messages or likes in then that men are just like, "It doesn't matter how many messages I send out," it's crickets and so people get really discouraged really quickly.

Your sentiment of like, what you're going to get out of it, what you put into it, I guess I'm wondering about what what you've seen in the data. Like anything that you can share for those people and it's not always men or straight men but for those people who feel like, "I'm really trying to put myself out there and it's getting really discouraging and frustrating that I feel like I'm not getting a lot back."

Michael: Yes. I have friends who are going through that right now, and what they'll do is they'll take a break from the apps and then they'll come back to it at another point. I think that's a great idea. It's exhausting. It totally is.

Emily: And discourages them probably over time.

Michael: It is. It totally is, and one of my friends, I think she's such an excellent dater because she always has such an open mind but there are periods of the year where she's lining up dates every night of the week and there's other periods where she's like, "I haven't been on the apps for days and I'm just not interested." I think you have to take it day by day and if it's not working, take a break but then there's also if it's more about the quality of matches that you're seeing on a dating app, there are insider tips and tricks that you can leverage.

One thing I tell people all the time is that if you update your profile, let's say every two to three weeks, and when I say update, I do not mean you have to start a profile from scratch. You don't have to remove everything but change one or two of your photos and maybe change one or two sentences in your about section or any of the prompts that you fill out.

What's going to happen here is that the app is actually going to get confused by your activity and because there's so much activity happening on the profile, the app is going to think that you're a new user and it's going to start showing you to new users, popular users. It'll just start showing you to a lot more people than before because one thing I heard from people across all dating apps is, "I've been on it for a year and I feel like the quality of my matches has really declined and I'm getting these people who aren't responding to my messages.

It seems like they're not even active on the app anymore." If you keep playing around with your profile and updating it, let's just say once a month, it's going to trick the app and it's going to start showing you to more and more people. That's like a fun trick that I learned at OkCupid.

Dedeker: Oh, that's gold. That's like this is what people want to hear is that insider, these hacks. You mentioned having a friend that you felt like was a really excellent data and you mentioned having an open mind as being a part of that. What else do you think are the qualities of someone who's an excellent dater?

Michael: Yes. I think the mindset is key. I sometimes will sit with my friends and I'll swipe with them on their apps and the biggest turnoff that I see is that people are writing into their profile prompts or whatever it is, and they're saying, "Swipe left if," and it's such a negative first impression and I always recommend, "Instead of focusing on what your deal breakers are, I think it's really important that you know what they are but instead of focusing on those, highlight your deal makers."

Think about what's going to make you swipe right on someone or why do you want someone to swipe right on you? That's really what you should be shining a light on. Again, I think it goes back to this idea of your mindset when it comes to dating. If you're just being super negative with it, you're going to attract other negative people or you're going to attract people who aren't taking it as seriously as you want them to be taking it.

Dedeker: Yes, that makes a lot of sense and I think that I feel like it is trendy to complain about dating and be really negative about dating right now. I think in particular since people started trying to get back out there as the pandemic and like quarantine rules became a little bit less restrictive, I feel like I've read now like 10,000 articles about hetero pessimism and things like that. It is funny because I do think it makes sense. It's like people get hurt and people get disappointed and so you get so sick of that then you're like, "I'm just going to put all my deal breakers in my profile," but often, I've definitely seen that that doesn't necessarily shield people from heartbreak.

Michael: Yes. On that, not to bring up complaints, now I'm getting negative, see how addictive it is. One complaint that I hear a lot is that we matched, we started talking and this conversation is going nowhere. There's maybe a few messages every couple of days or there's no concrete plans to meet up and I always ask people. "Well, have you made any effort to move the conversation off the app?"

You have to do this when you feel comfortable and safe to give out your number to a stranger but you can't really be shy. When I was on dating apps and I felt a connection with someone and I wanted to move it off the app, I would say, "This app is killing my battery. Here's my number," and I move the conversation to text.

We actually asked our daters and 30% of them said they want to move the conversation off the app asap and 53% want to move it to text as soon as they agree on plan, so whether that's moving it to text, whether that's moving it to a FaceTime date, you have to make sure that you're progressing this conversation, otherwise you're going to get all these done matches that aren't going anywhere.

Dedeker: Yes. That makes a lot of sense.

Jase: Yes, that makes a lot of sense and that's also tracks with my experience that it tends to be after we've set like, "Okay, let's-- what about this day?" "Sure. Let's make plans. Here's my number," and then we move to text around that and I didn't even think about that as a pattern but that makes a lot of sense. It's like we're going to meet in person anyway, so I guess I'll give you my number, that just makes sense.

That's interesting, so something that-- a term comes up, and we've talked about it in the past is cuffing season. Before we started recording, you were talking to us a little bit about this because you at OkCupid actually have data analytics about cuffing season and so I guess to start us off, could you define for us from OkCupid's point of view, like from a data analytics point of view, what is cuffing season? Then also when is it and what happens there?

Michael: Yes, so I think culturally cuffing season is a period that we see every single year, and it tends to happen at the end of summer as the weather starts to dip and as the winter months or colder months come, so do the holiday seasons and people are going home to their families. There's all these really awesome milestones between November, December, January, February that people don't really want to be alone for.

They want to have someone for Hanukkah and for Christmas and for New Year's and for Valentine's Day, so during summer, when it's super hot out and they just want to go out and have fun, we see the opposite happen as it gets a little bit colder and that's when people want to get into a serious relationship, have a partner to spend those holiday moments with.

Dedeker: That's interesting because I feel like there's some interesting data intersections there. Something that we've talked about on the show before is that you can roughly identify some breakup seasons as well and it definitely tracks with-- I work with clients and I work with couples and it definitely tracks with like the times that I'm the busiest and so that's usually what is it? Usually it is like at the end of summer, I find is when there's like a lot of breakups or at least a lot of relationship drama that's happening for people.

Then it's like between the end of Christmas and Valentine's Day because that's the time usually when it's like if people are in a relationship, they don't like-- they're like, "We'll stick together through the holidays. I don't want to be alone in the holidays but I can't deal with this bleak winter lasting all the way to Valentine's Day," and so that's when breakups tend to happen. I'm wondering, do you notice any trends of like when people start dating again or like fire back up their profile again outside of cuffing season in particular?

Michael: Yes. Well, there's a few things I want to respond to here. One is just reacting to what you were just talking about and think about what we're doing during the holiday seasons. We're not as busy at work. We might not be as busy with our extracurriculars. There's a lot of downtime. I think in that downtime it becomes a period of self-reflection for people and they're thinking about, "What do I want in my relationship? What do I want in my career? What do I want in my life?" Because I think there's similar-- and I don't know this off the top of my head but I do think there's similar trends between peak dating season and peak job application seasons. It's when we're making these like, big life changes, going back to cuffing

season, there's a couple big moments we see throughout the year. I've actually been talking to our data experts, so all the data scientists at OkCupid, and they're actually predicting that November 6th is going to be the official kickoff to cuffing season, which is why-

Emily: We're going to have some--

Michael: -leading to that, you got to get your apps in the best shape possible. After that kickoff, we are actually expecting the biggest spikes in matching to happen between Halloween and Thanksgiving, with roughly 25% jumps in matches at the highest points. There's going to be a big boom in activity. After that period, and this is a holiday, for lack of a better term that I learned about after working at OkCupid, but every January we experience Dating Sunday or Single Sunday. It's kind of synonymous, both those terms. What that day is, the first Sunday of January, every single year, is the biggest online dating day for all the apps.

Dedeker: Wow.

Michael: Booming activity on Hinge, Tinder, OkCupid, you name it. Where that comes from is, after New Year's Eve, that's when people are like, "I got to get my gym membership, and I have to get a dating app. I'm going to look my best self, and I'm going to get a partner. I don't want to go through these holidays alone again." That's actually like the Super Bowl of dating and that's--

Emily: Amazing.

Michael: Honestly, that's the only sports pun you're ever going to get from me-

Michael: -but that's the best way to describe it.

Dedeker: What do you, around these things-- Okay, so you identify November 6th, that's going to be a big kickoff day; in January whatever it is, first Sunday in January. What is going on behind the scenes for all, y'all, when you know that these things are happening? Is there anything that you're doing differently or is it just being aware that this is probably where we're going to see a spike in activity?

Michael: Yes. It really depends. Sometimes we'll align marketing campaigns around these key moments, but it's a lot of work on the product teams to make sure that we are prepared as an app for this boom in activity because the last thing you want is an app crashing.

Emily: Sure.

Michael: Luckily, that doesn't fall under my area of responsibility, but they're busy.

Emily: Yes, I bet. You also talked about, during this time, you really need to get your app and your profile in the best shape possible. Are there specific tips that you have to do that to make your profile as good as you possibly can?

Michael: Yes. One tool on OkCupid, specifically, that I love is called iCupid, and it's actually a dashboard that's private to you, so you're the only one who will see it. It gives you little tips and a checklist of how to optimize your profile. It'll tell you things like how many more photos to add, how many more words you need in your about section. That's a great tool for people.

More general tips for anyone on any dating app, one is when you're filling out your profile, make lists. What I mean by this is, list things like books that are on your coffee table, or songs that people will find on your Spotify playlist, or vacations that you still want to go on. A lot of people need help with how to craft a first message, and no surprise, guys especially need a lot of help. If they read something that's a little bit basic, in general, that you are a chill, laid-back woman looking for a man, they have no idea what to do with that.

Emily: Interesting.

Michael: You need to put stuff on your profile that makes it easy for guys, or really anyone, to respond to. That goes with your photos too. The selfies, we got to ditch them, and upload photos of things you love doing, so whether that's being at a concert, or running, or traveling, show people what you are interested in. I always say that anything you're going to put on your profile, a sentence, a photo, it needs to serve some purpose. It needs to be a conversation starter.

Emily: That's great advice.

Dedeker: Also, I just want to drop in the little caveat of, yes, I love seeing pictures of people showing what it is that they love doing. It's not helpful if all your pictures are of you 2,000 miles away on the mountain-

Michael: Yes. You do need a few profile--

Dedeker: -in sunglasses and a helmet, and maybe a balaclava across your face. I've seen a lot of dating profiles that are like that. Yes, show me what you love, but also show me your face at the same time.

Michael: Yes, and let's minimize the group photos. That if you have to include one, put it at the end of your list so that-- a lot of people are not patient and they're not going to play where's Waldo on your dating app.

Emily: Yes. "Who are these people?" Yes.

Jase: "Which one?" So many times I've had to do that. "Which one is it?" You're going back and forth between the one close-up picture and you're like--

Emily: Maybe?

Jase: "I think that's this one, but all their friends look the same. I can't tell." Before we take our break in the middle of the show here, I wanted to ask, specifically when we're looking at dating, and one of the things that we love about OkCupid and have for a long time is that, from the start, it's been one of the most affirming of different types of relationships, like non-monogamy. It was one of the first ones, really the only one at the time when we met each other, that was really supporting that. Then, also, LGBTQ dating trends and things like that.

I'm curious to know, one, how the app has changed over the years for that, and then two, just what's that like, again, from a data side of things in OkCupid.

Michael: A lot has stayed the same, except that, we, every year, continue to build on our inclusivity. We love to say that we're exclusively inclusive, and we want to make sure that everyone who comes on our app feels safe, and they feel welcomed, and they feel accepted. Even if they're part of a demographic that might not necessarily be the biggest group on our app. For example, LGBTQ+ people. It's obviously a smaller group of people on OkCupid, but we've been introducing features specifically for LGBTQ people since 2004, which is the year we launched.

Emily: Wow.

Michael: We continue to build on that, whether that's being the first to introduce a pronouns feature, or being the first to expand gender and orientation options. Similarly, with people who are non-monogamous, one of the trends that we've been seeing over the last couple of years is that non-monogamy is definitely in.

A majority of our daters still do seek monogamous relationships, but in 2021, users seeking non-monogamous relationships increased 7%, and mentions of non-monogamy and throuple in users' profiles went up 21%. Now, yes, that does sound like a low percentage, but it's not really when you're considering that there are millions and millions of people on this app.

Emily: Yes.

Michael: When we looked at our questions, we've talked about our questions before, but our in-app questions have been answered millions and millions of times. One of our questions that I was looking at recently was, would you consider having an open relationship? Over the years, 30% of almost 30 million daters on our app said they would consider having an open relationship.

Going back to the data, if we break that down by year, this actually jumped from 29% of people in 2018 saying they'd be into non-monogamy, to 30% of people in 2019 and 2020, and then up to 34% in 2021 and 2022. Over the last three years, millennials and Gen Z'ers were actually the most likely to say that they would consider an open relationship.

Emily: It makes sense.

Michael: We have features for non-monogamous relationships. On your details page, you can actually link profiles with your partner. This means if someone is visiting your profile, they'll see a link to your partner's profile as well. The reason why that we do this is because we want to make sure that there's only one person per profile.

Jase: Right, so you're not doing couples profiles like you see all the time on Tinder or whatever.

Michael: Yes, but we also don't want to not allow it and not give a workaround to people.

Dedeker: Sure. Right. Yes. Exactly. I remember I first got on OkCupid back in, probably 2010, which feels like 6,000 years ago at this point. Even back in 2010, they were like the only dating site that offered where you could put your status as like, "I'm partnered but still available." Even though it doesn't say like non-monogamous, or in an open relationship, or polyamorous or anything right on the tin, just the fact that that was there I think was so huge.

I think back in the day, that was where all the polyamorous people were, or at least all the ones that I met, for certain.Now, again, behind the scenes, as you've been expanding those options and trying to continue to make the space even more welcoming to a wide variety of relationships, has there ever been any controversy behind that, or has it been easy, because it's like, "Oh, well, the data speaks for itself, so this is what we're going to do?"

Michael: Yes. With anything that we do, there's always going to be someone who you are upsetting. For us, the more important thing is to make sure that

when someone comes to our app, no matter how they identify, no matter what type of relationship that they're looking for, they can get on, they can create a profile, and they can say, "Oh, this is a place for me. This is a place where I can find someone." If someone's choices in how they want to date and who they want to date offend you, we're fine with this not being the app for you.

Jase: Right. Actually, to go back to the thing about linking profiles, it is interesting that you put it in the perspective of, part of the point of that is to avoid those couples profiles, so each profile just belongs to one person, which I do like that a lot, but I know that amongst polyamorous people, there's been the complaint that you can only link to one other profile person.

I know there have been some workarounds and stuff in the past for tagging people in your descriptions, so you can link those. I'm just curious if that's something that OkCupid has talked about, and thought about, and what's going on with that? I know there been like some petitions and things to ask OkCupid to add that.

Michael: In the few years that I've been here, it hasn't been a huge complaint in terms of emails that come to our support team, or conversations and complaints that we've seen on social, which is probably why there hasn't been that fix. What I actually love about working here is that whenever a conversation like this pops up, we're able to talk to our product team and they'll say, "Hey, we can actually work on that. It'll take us this amount of months." They're so open with these type of updates.

For example, when I joined, I knew that we already had a pronouns feature. I thought that was great, but it was for LGBTQ+ people. It's pretty common and easy for me as a gay man to say my pronouns are he, him. During, I think it was 2020, I went to our product team and I was like, "Hey, this is an amazing feature, but we should really open it up to our straight users as well because we need straight people to help normalize the use of gender pronouns," and they were like, "Okay, done." Now it's open to everyone.

Emily: That's awesome.

Jase: That's great.

Michael: I love that we're like open to this type of feedback and we genuinely appreciate hearing it.

Jase: We have a bunch more questions that we've gotten from our Patreon supporters, but before we get to those, we're going to take a quick break to talk about some ways that you can support this show. If this is interesting and informative to you, and you want us to keep being able to give this content to all of you out there for free, please take a moment to check out our sponsors and if any of them seem interesting, go check them out. It does directly help support our show, and we really appreciate it.

Emily: All right, folks, we are back. We are here with Michael Kaye. I'm sure that at OkCupid, like anyone who creates any content or product on the internet, you get bombarded with all kinds of super helpful and super nice feedback from people on the internet about the ways that the site could be better. Are there any particular complaints or particularly common complaints that you feel like hold weight that OkCupid tends to focus on or pay attention to?

Michael: Yes. One complaint we hear via email, via Twitter a lot is around our discovery feature and search box. Years ago you had the ability to search for different things on the app, like different questions. We've since removed that feature when we did a huge redesign of our app a couple of years ago and added even more features, but because people were so upset about this, we've actually been working and talking with the product team for quite some time now about figuring out a way to actually bring back that feature and do it seamlessly as part of our new design.

The app looks a lot different. I joined in 2019, it looks completely different than when I joined. We're two iterations later at this point. For us, it actually takes a lot more time than I ever realized to make product updates. There's some product features that we've worked on and we talked about it a year prior, so give us some time. We're trying to figure it out and hopefully, it will be back. In the meantime what you can do is, if you're interested to see a little bit more about someone when you're on the app, you'll see a match percentage.

If you click that percentage, it'll show you all the questions that you answered in common. If you're interested in seeing if they also love horror movies, or if they also are kinky, or if they also love ice coffee, you'll able to see all the questions they answered and how they answered in that list. That's my quick fix for now, and then stay tuned for more updates to come.

Dedeker: Our listeners at home aren't seeing this, but the way your eyes bugged out when you said the word Twitter, I can only imagine-

Dedeker: -the kind of commentary you get.

Michael: What a world.

Emily: For all the feedback. Twitter, my goodness.

Emily: I wanted to discuss some of the things that our patrons had to say about the app and all of the questions that they had. We posted on our Patreon, on our Discord, on our Facebook group, and a ton of people were really, really complimentary of the app. I posted like, "Do you have questions for Michael Kaye, head of communications?" Somebody said, "I just want to give props for being the most non-monog-friendly dating site I've found in the years that I've been poly," so that's really cool.

That was an overwhelming sentiment from a lot of people. I do have an initial question here. "As someone who found her husband in three of her long-term poly relationships on OkCupid, I'm thankful for how well their algorithm works for non-monogamous folks and I'm a firm believer that OkCupid is the best dating app out there in terms of non-monogamous capabilities.

I'm wondering if there is a way to fine tune the algorithms so that when I say I'm looking for non-monogamous only, it doesn't show me people who say open to non-monogamy." That's interesting. "Furthermore, since Michael is the head of communications, is there any plan to put out a survey in the future to OkCupid users, maybe to get some research on the non-monog OkCupid population? I feel like that would be fascinating."

Michael: Great questions, whoever you are. Excellent questions. The second part is a quick answer. Actually, we interview daters all the time. This happens year-round. We're talking to people from different backgrounds, different identities, non-monogamous, monogamous, so that's always happening year-round, and those people really help influence what the product becomes. In regards to the first question, that's an excellent question. It really depends on how serious your filters are.

Sometimes we see people who are looking for someone 30 to 33, and they have to be this identity, and they have to be this many miles away. What happens is, there's only so many people that we're able to show you. Once we show you the people who fit all your criteria, we start to loosen it a bit. That's when you'll see, "Oh, okay, I said I wanted someone 30 to 33, but this person's 34." That's why that happens.

The workaround for that is, all your preferences that you fill out on your profile, there's also an option to make those deal breakers. If you click that something is a dealbreaker, we automatically will never show you someone who does not fit that criteria. That's an option that you can play with, but I would just encourage you to loosen your preferences just a little bit so that you're getting enough matches to show you. That's why that--

Jase: I think the issue is specifically the non-monogamy thing. Where it's like, "I don't want people that are just open to it, I want people who are this and identify as that."

Michael: We have three options for that. It's either you're monogamous, you're non-monogamous, or you're open to either. Pay attention to your preferences.

Dedeker: Got you. Related to that, there is another Patreon question that maybe overlaps with this a little bit, but this person is asking about if you've considered expanding those relationship options, as in expanding into things like swinging, or a committed open relationship, or hierarchical polyamory, or looking for relationship anarchy, or looking for career platonic, or all these things.

Of course whenever you're trying to add more options, it can get really overwhelming really quickly, so I guess I'm just wondering if there's been any thought about that of expanding the nuance beyond just non-monogamous or not. I see, Jase, you want to jump in with clarifying.

Jase: Well, because I think there's two parts in the app where this could come up, and I think both could be interesting, but there's the first part where you're just saying, "Am I monogamous or not?" Could be interesting because non-monogamy, is like swinging's a pretty different kind of non-monogamy from-

Emily: That's true.

Jase: -polyamory or relationship anarchy, at least in terms of what people expect, but then also when you get into the preferences of like, "I'm looking for new friends, long-term, short-term, or casual hookups, or whatever it is," those categories too, it's like, "Well, I'm looking for a secondary partner, or a primary partner, or expanding both. I could see both categories being something that could get expanded, but like Dedeker was saying, as you add more options, maybe you're also making it more difficult to find matches. I don't know.

Emily: Probably.

Michael: No, I love that and it's something that we absolutely can and should consider. We evolve as society and culture evolves. The options that we had when we first launched in 2004, there's a ton more now. I mean this honestly relates more to the LGBTQ+ community, but when we first started there was probably a handful of identities that queer people can choose from.

That then moved to over 40 gender and orientation options, and then since I've been here, we expanded that even further with 19 new identities, so if you're queer now, there's over 60 identities that you can choose from and you can choose up to 5 because we understand people don't fit into a singular box.

I love bringing those learnings and those updates to the non-monogamous community as well. I think that's something that we'd want to discuss with people in this space. That's an opportunity for our research team when they're talking to find out from people who are non-monogamous, maybe not identities is the right word, but what other options they would like to see on their profiles.

Emily: Identity can the right word for some people for sure, but what people are looking for. Absolutely, because some people identify as a swinger and not polyamorous. Some people say non-monogamous is a certain type of thing that they are.

Dedeker: Although, something we're always talking about on this show though it's like even if you put polyamory in your dating profile, you're still going to have a conversation with that other person about what that actually means to you, just because they also say polyamory doesn't mean that automatically, "Ooh, we practice the same type of polyamory." I mean I would definitely love and I think a lot of people would love to see more expanded options to help with searching, to help with filtering and also just want people to know that that's not going to solve all our problems, unfortunately.

Michael: Yes, but we can also-- we've used our app to educate our users as well. We've obviously done that with the questions that we are adding to the app. Earlier this year we heard from people who are-- and this came up with our research team and then they were talking to daters and they heard from people who are non-binary and transgender and they said, "We love--" Oh, which is also a complaint. "We love that you have all these identities on the app, but we're being matched with people who don't really understand what my identity is and I don't want to have to explain it to every other person."

We thought, "You're completely right," and we partnered with the human rights campaign and we actually added definitions into the app next to every single identity, so that when you are looking at it from a user perspective, which ones make most sense for you, but also when you are on the reverse side and you're saying what you are looking for, now you understand what these identities mean and you're not just clicking all and then saying, "Well I don't know if that's something I am interested in."

Dedeker: That makes so much sense. I think I wouldn't have even thought about that with definitely some other dating apps that I've used. Even if they're quite inclusive with what gender identity or sexuality it is often assuming you just got to know what that means.

Jase: Yes. Interesting, so we have a couple questions here that are related to each other, and these are about discoverability, but like a not discoverability in a way. The first question is, "Can dating apps begin making it possible to select only other queer people? To clarify, I'm a bisexual cis woman. I'm interested in connections with queer people of all genders."

The way dating apps are organized at the moment, I mostly see profiles from straight men. Most of the profiles are not ones that I'd consider, then I think it's related to the second question here, which is "I miss the option to make yourself invisible to straight people." Is that something they'd consider bringing back?

Michael: Yes. Firstly, I can't speak for other dating apps. What I will say for OkCupid is that we're one of the only non-exclusive exclusively LGBTQ+ dating apps that does not force users to select being shown in a binary context. That's not something you have to worry about on our app, and then I think with all these new identities and orientation options, I mean there's over 60 now. Chances are you are able to match with someone who does fit the criteria that you are looking for. Then I don't know if this is going to answer the person's question, but we do have an incognito mode feature that does hide your profile, so maybe that's a fix for that person.

Jase: That's hiding just in general though, right?

Michael: Yes.

Emily: They're looking to hide from straight people, I guess if they're only specifically looking for people.

Michael: Yes. I think the challenge is it depends on what that person says they're looking for too, so they can themselves identify as straight, but be open to being matched with someone who identifies as bisexual, and that's how our app is. Like that's how our algorithm works, we match people based on a few things. It's what you say you're looking for, what they say they're looking for, and then the questions power the rest of it, so there's a lot of factors that go into this.[

Dedeker: Yes. I guess I'm wondering is, I can imagine in this particular case if it's someone who is a straight man saying that they're open to connecting with a bisexual woman and that's maybe not quite what this person wants on the other side that can get a little bit tricky.

Jase: Right. It's a interesting logic question to be like, "So what's the filter then to say I'm interested, like men are an option who are interested in women, which is what I am, but they also have to be interested in other people that are not women." Like that is a tricky extra step to add to that algorithm. That is an interesting question.

Dedeker: I'm just marveling at in, first of all, I think I'm marveling at OkCupid really being around as long as it has. I do think that adaptability is probably a big part of that. Like not just being really stuck in it being a particular way, like really needing to stay on the forefront of how people are dating, what they're looking for, the ways that they're expressing what they're looking for.

Like it's really, yes, I just think especially right now when I think apps and products and dating trends just like rise and fall so quickly, I think that sticking power that OkCupid has had probably attest to that adaptability of being a really like a core value behind the scenes.

Michael: Yes. I mean there's a reason why we've been around for almost 20 years and we're we now have millions of people in over 100 countries all around the world and it's because we're using our app to create as much of a tailored personalized experience as you possibly can. Your experience in Instanbul is going to be very different as a straight person then a bisexual person in New York City, than a transgender person in London.

We lean on our questions a lot for this, we actually have localized questions in over 30 countries around the world-

Emily: Oh, wow. That's so cool.

Dedeker: That's cool.

Michael: -that are tailored to people in that specific country. Then we also have questions for people and questions for gay people and questions for bisexual people because everyone's dating differently. What people care about changes by country, by age, by identity, that's how we're using our app.

Dedeker: Yes, I think we'll have to bring you back for that whole conversation because I love that stuff also as someone who has spent several years digital nomading and using a variety of apps in different cultures that it is so funny to see how the experience is different. It would be really fascinating to hear more and more in-depth about how it's different on the other side as well.

Jase: We did have a number of questions asking about what's the data you have on things like numbers of matches of people who are non-monogamous versus monogamous or numbers of new profiles or like you mentioned some of those statistics about people answering that open to non-monogamy question and how that percentage has gone up and up and up each year it seems.

I was curious with that information that you're getting all the time from these interviews and question answers, is that ever published anywhere? Where can people get access to some of that information as it comes out and gets collected?

Michael: Yes, so the best place for people to go is our blog, so if you literally Google OkCupid Blog, you will see all our latest blog posts. One thing I launched last year, which I'm super excited about, is our dating data center. You will notice blog posts that are literally called OkCupid's Dating Data Center, and what that is basically just

our newest in at matching questions and how people are responding to them. If you're ever interested in the latest, newest data points, that's where you will find that and that's on our blog as well.

Jase: I love this. I just--

Dedeker: This is really--

Jase: I was about to boot up my OKCupid profile again and I'm like, "Actually no, I just want to spend all my time with this data."

Emily: That's awesome. I'm sure a lot of our listeners will be really excited about that as well. Michael, this has been so wonderful. We really appreciate your time. Where can our listeners find more out about you or find you out there in the wild? Also, can you tell us a little bit about the promotion that you were talking about earlier to us?

Michael: Yes, so you can find me at Michael KPR on Instagram and Twitter. DMs are open if you have dating, relationship, dating app questions. Just want to say hi, just want to come play,-

Dedeker: So accessible.

Michael: -whatever you want. Then if you are a listener of Multiamory as we are, if you email subscriptions@okcupid.com after creating a free account, so either you have an account already that you're not paying for or you download the app for free and create a free profile, email subscriptions@okcupid.com. Let us know where you heard us and we will upgrade you to our premium subscription because you can have a free experience on OkCupid, but why not get all the bells and whistles for free for being a loyal podcast listener?

Emily: That's so out outrageously generous. Thank you.

Jase: I will be sending you my logins.

Emily: Absolutely. Wow. Right. Well, thank you so much, Michael. We have a question for all y'all out there on our Instagram this week, and it is, do you date online, and what do you like about it and what do you find frustrating? I bet there's a lot of things to love and a lot of things that are really challenging about it.