466 - "I have lost all enthusiasm for my relationship." - Listener Q&A
It’s Q&A time!
Today’s episode is a special additional mini episode answering just one question from our Patreon community. We’ll be doing a mini episode through the second quarter so stay tuned for next week’s as well!
Today’s question is:
This relationship was once very intense and involved, but de-escalated starting about four years ago and now feels more like a friendship to me. This de-escalation was my partner's choice, for a number of reasons, but wasn't explicit. Instead, standing arrangements of overnights were broken, planned trips would be whittled down or canceled altogether, date nights would be forgotten, etc.
In the beginning I engaged with her about the changes in the relationship. I suggested that we see a counselor about the problems we were experiencing, but dropped the topic when she suggested that there wasn't a goal to achieve in therapy. I talked to her about how I felt she was pushing me away, but she didn't want to have those conversations. At some point I stopped bringing up the topic, in large part because I avoid conflict so raising the issue was already a stretch for me. I decided to accept the relationship for what it had become instead of wishing for something she wasn't looking for.
In the last few months, however, she has reached out to spend more time with me, and she has followed through on more - though not nearly all - of the plans that we have together. She has said that she doesn't feel that I'm engaged in the relationship anymore, which ... I really can't argue. I don't initiate much beyond getting a dinner together. I expect that she won't keep plans that we make.
I realize that my process of "accepting the relationship for what it is" has been about accepting the new limitations, and I haven't accepted any new opportunities in all this time. How do I open myself up to the new opportunities, while remaining realistic about how much I can expect from her?
Meh in Massachusetts
Transcript
This document may contain small transcription errors. If you find one please let us know at info@multiamory.com and we will fix it ASAP.
Jase: Welcome to the Multiamory Podcast. I'm Jase
Emily: I'm Emily.
Dedeker: And I'm Dedeker.
Emily: We believe in looking to the future of relationships, not maintaining the status quo of the past.
Dedeker: Whether you're monogamous, polyamorous, swinging, casually dating, or if you just do relationships differently, we see you. And we're here for you. This episode of the Multiamory Podcast, we are answering a question from one of our Patreon supporters. If you want the opportunity to ask a question on the show, become one of our patrons at patreon. com slash multiamory. Guess what, everyone? We're gonna do something a little different today. We are answering one question sent to us from our [00:01:00] awesome community of listeners.
Emily: We're going to be doing this for the next few months, and we're really excited to hear from you all about what you think of this new format. So, let us know in our comments, on our Instagram, or
in our private Discord server, or our private Facebook patron only group.
And, yeah.
Jase: Before we get into the question, we just want to give a quick disclaimer. One is that we have spent a lot of time studying healthy relationship communication, but we are not mind readers and our advice is solely based on the limited information that we get from these questions, so please take it with a grain of salt and understand that we may misinterpret some things.
Dedeker: Everybody's situation is unique, so we encourage you to use your own judgment, seek professional help if needed. Remember, you are the only true expert on your life and feelings, and your decisions are your own. And these questions have been edited for time and clarity.
Jase: The question that we're tackling today is, I'm looking for help in reframing a relationship where I have lost all enthusiasm. So here's the full version of [00:02:00] the question. This relationship was once very intense and involved, but deescalated starting about four years ago and now feels more like a friendship to me.
This deescalation was my partner's choice for a number of reasons, but wasn't explicit. Instead, standing arrangements of overnights were broken, planned trips would be whittled down or cancelled altogether, date nights would be forgotten, etc. In the beginning, I engaged with her about the changes in the relationship.
I suggested that we see a counselor about the problems we were experiencing, but dropped the topic when she suggested there wasn't a goal to achieve in therapy. I talked to her about how I felt she was pushing me away, but she didn't want to have those conversations. At some point, I stopped bringing up the topic.
In large part because I avoid conflict, so raising the issue was already a stretch for me. I decided to accept the relationship for what it had become instead of wishing for something that she [00:03:00] wasn't looking for. In the last few months, however, she has reached out to spend more time with me, and she has followed through on more, though not nearly all, of the plans that we have together. She has said she doesn't feel that I'm engaged in the relationship anymore, which I can't really argue. I don't initiate much beyond getting a dinner together. I expect that she won't keep plans that we make. I realize that my process of accepting the relationship for what it is has been about accepting the new limitations and I haven't accepted any new opportunities in all this time.
How do I open myself up to the new opportunities while remaining realistic about how much I can expect from her? This question comes from Meh in Massachusetts.
Well done on the sign off name, by the way. It's a bummer,
Dedeker: Yeah, yeah, always.
Jase: Gosh, that's a good sign off.
Dedeker: Points for that. Points for that. Has, has a situation similar to this ever happened to the two of you? Sort of this unspoken [00:04:00] shifting in relationship? Maybe an unspoken drifting apart?
Emily: For sure, I think especially when I was younger and dating quite a few people at once, that if the two of us just kind of were going in different directions, or somebody maybe started seeing a new person that they were excited about, and the existing relationships that were there were sort of Going away, that might have happened. it is understandable to not necessarily be super explicit about this, sometimes, but that would happen more in my youth, as opposed to maybe now, with all of the knowledge, hopefully, that I have about being in relationships, I'd want to be way more explicit, but definitely when I was younger, I also didn't want to rock the boat, and I was like, well, I'm I guess this is just kind of coming to its conclusion.
But it's interesting here that now she's coming back into the picture and wanting more. That really kind of flips the narrative on its head a bit.
Jase: Yeah, [00:05:00] absolutely. I was gonna say a similar thing of anytime I've experienced this or seen this, it's usually shortly before the end of a relationship. It's sort of a gradual way of distancing to then end of the relationship. So it is interesting in this case that it seems like maybe there's some effort to reignite this and that this has been going on for quite a long time. For several years now.
Dedeker: This does make me think a lot of, I think like you mentioned, Emily, relationships that I had when I was much younger, when I wasn't feeling quite as confident about my ability to communicate. There are actually, there are some relationships that I look back on now with some longing, remembering at the time feeling like, Oh, I wish I could be closer to this person, but it seems like I'm getting the message that maybe they're not into that.
And so I'm not going to ask for anything. I'm not going to bring it up and just sort of floating along. And I find myself always wondering. What if I had asked for something or what if I had brought it up, you know, would, would things be different?
Emily: Oh gosh. [00:06:00] Yeah.
Jase: All right. Before we dive all the way into this question, we're going to take a quick moment to talk about supporting this show. We love being able to answer people's questions. We love being able to put this out there in the world for free. every week, possibly twice a week, like we're doing right now.
And the way that we do that is through our sponsors and through our Patreon. So please take a moment to check those out and help support this show to keep it going.
Dedeker: And we are back. I'm really glad that reading this question made me connect with that younger self and that sense of longing, because what I think my younger self is screaming at this person is, make this shit explicit. You have to. This person's mentioned how the de escalation itself was not explicit.
They mentioned that they themselves avoid conflict. So it's already really been hard to talk about this. And I do think that there's a really important turning point that's possibly happening right now with this. former partner reaching back [00:07:00] out. And I think if you don't take the time to sit down and make it explicit to, to really clearly ask, okay, these are the things that I'm noticing.
And these are the stories that I have about it. And I want to know what you're feeling. And I want to share with you what I'm feeling and let's collaborate on this on what direction we want to head into. If you don't do that, you may be setting yourself back. up for the same thing happening all over again where this person kind of drifts closer and then farther away and closer and then farther away or you drift closer and then farther away and no one really knows what's going on.
Emily: I'm really latching onto this thing that they said, I expect that she won't keep plans that we make. Because to me, that's saying that that is the expectation that's been created in their mind, based on the information that they have from the de escalation happening. And that therefore, that's kind of how they're coloring any interaction that they have with this person from then on, and I think that that's really telling, and that , [00:08:00] maybe that is true. Maybe this person is just kind of a flake, or that they've become that, but I would be curious as to what it was for them, maybe, that changed. Not only saying, like, here are the things that I am experiencing, and here are the things that I'm going through, and the stories that I'm telling myself, but can you maybe pinpoint a time in which you feel like things changed for you?
And, and what, what was that? Is that something that maybe we can collaboratively work on? Or was that a real turning point in the relationship that kind of meant that it was going to become something that it wasn't at one point? We don't really know how long the relationship was before the de escalation started happening four years ago, but it's clear that they've known each other for a period of time. For at least four years, if not, probably, presumably, more than that.
Dedeker: Have stayed in touch this whole time also.
Jase: Mm-hmm.
Emily: Yeah, that too, and I mean, I think that that's telling, but there's a reason why they want each other [00:09:00] in their lives. And there's also a reason why this de escalation happened in the first place. And so I would, yes, want to get to the bottom of that, and try to pinpoint and question and ask them to do some soul searching, too, of what was going on there for you?
Why do you think this changed? And I know that conflict is difficult, maybe, for this person, but You can ask those questions, hopefully in a way that is not going to present or create more conflict in the relationship.
Jase: Wanna go back to a couple things a little bit earlier on in the question, or in the description here. This part that says, in the beginning I engaged with her about the changes in the relationship. I suggested we see a counselor about the problems we were experiencing, but dropped the topic when she suggested that there wasn't a goal to achieve in therapy. And then also says, I talked to her about how I felt she was pushing me away, but she didn't want to have those conversations. Those are red flags to me. And I think that's worth [00:10:00] acknowledging, that, to say like, well, there's not a goal to achieve. I, I don't know what the conversation was leading up to that, right?
But to me, that either means, oh, well, I don't really care about fixing this, so there's no goal here. It's like, I just want to do what I want to do, and you take it or leave it. Which is how some people approach relationships. And if that is, then it's your choice of, do I want to be in a relationship with someone who feels that way about me in this relationship?
Or it means that they didn't really understand what the problem was. And so they're like, oh, well, there's nothing really to I think I communicated clearly or something like that. And so there's nothing to resolve. It's like, yeah, we just want to do different things or, oh, my schedule's difficult or whatever it was.
I, again, I don't know the specifics of that conversation, but to me, it's like, like Emily saying, that's worth going back and revisiting because clearly Damage was done then, where you feel this way of like, I don't really trust this person to follow through with plans, so I don't want to go out of my way to suggest them, [00:11:00] because I don't know if they're actually gonna get received, or even if they are received, if they'll follow through and actually do them with me.
Dedeker: I'm gonna do something that's not really in my nature, which is look at this through a very optimistic lens.
Emily: Oh, how nice of you.
Dedeker: I know, I know, not, not my normal MO, but I, I really like the way this person has phrased it at the end here about, I want to open myself up to the new opportunities that are here. I've been focused on accepting the limitations and now I'm realizing maybe there's opportunities for connection. And so I want to just drop in the fact that four years is a certain amount of time where people can change and can shift, And so the obstacles that their partner was feeling for therapy or for working things out or talking about these things, those obstacles may have shifted. I don't know, or maybe they're still there.
What I wanted to hone in on though is , the last question, how do I open myself up to the new opportunities while remaining realistic about how much I can expect from her? And what I read underneath [00:12:00] that is how do I open myself up without getting hurt again, which is probably impossible to, to get any kind of certainty around that, that this is going to be a risk.
If you choose to open yourself up again to somebody who has hurt you before, Or if they haven't hurt you, there's always going to be a risk that you're going to be hurt, you're going to be triggered, something's going to step on your toes, something's going to challenge you in some way. So I think that maybe a better reframe could be, what are the things that I need in order to feel safe enough to experiment here? Safe enough to extend myself a little bit, dip my toes into the water here a little bit, in order to give yourself the opportunity to find your way back to the enthusiasm. I think that's part of the issue is that I don't think this person is going to be able to flip a switch and suddenly feel super enthusiastic and proactive about this relationship when clearly there's a lot to unpack and to explore and to heal.[00:13:00]
But I'm curious about, there may be things that may help pave that pathway for you to walk down to get closer to this person. And it could be a conversation about all these things. It may need to be an explicit conversation laying out, hey, this was my experience of what happened four years ago and I want to hear your experience and how do we feel about that now.
It could be setting a particular container or boundaries for yourself. You know, it could, it could be about, okay, I want to extend myself in this way. Like maybe I will try. Once a week, initiating a dinner plan and seeing what happens. Or maybe it could be something like, before we go any further, I do want to sit down for a therapy session or two, maybe even keep it very small.
But I think it could be helpful here to have this sense of you're probably never going to feel 100 percent safe trying to reconnect to this person, but what what's the area where you are willing to extend yourself and play and see. If you can cultivate those seeds that may grow into an enthusiasm and connection with this [00:14:00] particular person again.
Emily: They said I haven't accepted any new opportunities in all this time. I'm not sure if this person is non monogamous, and they're essentially saying that they haven't gone out on a date with another person in all this time.
That's kind of where my head went.
Dedeker: Oh, I was reading that as like the opportunities for connection with this old person reaching out to them.
Jase: Hmm.
Emily: The only reason why I went there is because I feel like the worry that you would get burned maybe in another relationship in a similar way would still potentially be there. And that that would be holding you back from wanting to go out there and put yourself out there in a new relationship.
Dedeker: For sure.
Emily: And so, to me, that says you need to do some healing, and that may mean not entering into a relationship with this person again. And maybe that's not what you want to hear, and maybe you do want to continue the relationship with this older person, but [00:15:00] I would be worried that going back to that would trigger the same feelings of worry and, harm that perhaps were there.
From the beginning with this person.
Jase: To throw in there. You mentioned earlier that it feels like the relationships become more of a friendship type relationship. Is to take a look at it and at your own feelings and say, if this were a friend, how would I feel about this? And I don't mean that to say you'll get a super clear answer, but as an example, I have a friend who I've had for a very long time, who there was a period of time for several years where he would often flake on plans.
He's a little bit better about it now, but still not super reliable. And I found that that was frustrating at first, but I did enjoy the time I spent with him enough that it was worth that, but we wouldn't see each other super often, we wouldn't hang out super often. And when we did. I would try to set that up in a way where [00:16:00] I'm not changing my life around a lot to make it happen, because I think there's a decent chance he's going to cancel on me.
And for me that worked out, and actually now it's changed where he still is a little flaky sometimes, but much better, and he's a little more proactive about finding time to hang out and connect. And to me that has been worth it, but I also, in that process set up some kind of boundaries or limitations for myself just so that I'm not feeling put out and I get to enjoy the good parts and not feel as hurt by the inconsistency.
So I would just encourage you to use that as another lens to examine this and just say if this were a friend would I still want this or is this crossing a line even to where If a friend canceled on me for like, this plan that we planned this whole weekend and already bought tickets or whatever, then they cancel on me?
That maybe is crossing a line into not even good friend.
Dedeker: Well, we feel for you, Meh in Massachusetts. I had the impulse to call this person Sir Meh. I don't know [00:17:00] what the gender is, but I'm just going to call them Sir Meh. Sir Meh of Massachusetts, best of luck to you.
We hope that you're able to figure this one out. And to all of you listening out there, the best place to share your thoughts about this episode with other listeners is in the episode discussion channel in our Discord server. Or you can post about it in our private Facebook group. You can get access to these groups and join our exclusive community by going to patreon.
com slash multiamory. In addition, you can share with us publicly on Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok. Multiamory is created and produced by Jace Lindgren, Emily Matlack, and me, Dedeker Winston. Our production assistants are Rachel Schenewerk and Carson Collins. Our theme song is Forms I Know I Did by Josh and Anand from the Fractal Cave EP.
The full transcript is available on this episode's page on multiamory. com..